My Willys 3A and 3B Community
TECH FAQ SECTIONS => Electrical Systems => Topic started by: tow hook on December 28, 2020, 05:49:06 PM
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i got a new wire harness for my 62 3b there is 3 harness in the box the left and right are in a pretty much hooked up, i will do the rear after i know the front is working a ok.
the left side (driver side ) parking light has a red and black wire. the red wired goes to a yellow wire in the harness. but there is no hook up for the black wire?! i can take it the power block for the lights,and it lights up. but how would it blink ?
the horn was missing when i got it, i got a free horn that didn't work from a buddy. it's of a early 5 it has tabs . does all the horns have tabs ? the harness i got came with ring terminals
when i do put the rear harness in should i use these to do it with ?
https://www.kaiserwillys.com/wiring-harness-to-frame-clip-fits-49-71-cj-3a-3b-5-6
lastly the head lights and parking light work, turn signals do not. i found a flasher in the dash, it has a red wire that goes no were. were should that be hooked up to ? and how can i test the flasher it self with a multi meter ?
thanks
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In my harness, the 16 gauge yellow wire goes to the left front turn signal, the 16 gauge black wire goes to the right front turn signal. These are connected to the left harness separate from the three wire terminal block on the left fender. The three wires on the terminal block are: 16 gauge blue - R & L front parking lights; 12 gauge red - high beam; 14 gauge black - low beam.
All the research I have done says the horn has spade terminals, not ring terminals, I had to change mine.
Red wire from the flasher should go to the accessory terminal on the ignition switch. You have to put a load on the flasher unit, don't think a multimeter will work, but a 12 volt light bulb will.
Hope this helps
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thanks, i finally got pics to up load.
https://www.mywillyspics.com/image/jg0Z8
https://www.mywillyspics.com/image/jggia
https://www.mywillyspics.com/image/jgh0A
https://www.mywillyspics.com/image/jguTD
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In my harness, the 16 gauge yellow wire goes to the left front turn signal, the 16 gauge black wire goes to the right front turn signal. These are connected to the left harness separate from the three wire terminal block on the left fender. The three wires on the terminal block are: 16 gauge blue - R & L front parking lights; 12 gauge red - high beam; 14 gauge black - low beam.
All the research I have done says the horn has spade terminals, not ring terminals, I had to change mine.
Red wire from the flasher should go to the accessory terminal on the ignition switch. You have to put a load on the flasher unit, don't think a multimeter will work, but a 12 volt light bulb will.
Hope this helps
yep mine is hooked up the same way. so my spare driver side parking wire should go to the blue wire on the block?
thanks for the horn info i'll have to find away to change the ends to the horn.
thanks ,, i'll have to put a ring terminal on that wire and move it over to the ign switch and check it.
thanks for the help :)
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i wish they told you a bit better were one wire met the other. i'm not a electrical guy... so maybe it does in a way. seems odd that i have one wire with out a match. and the rest worked just fine.
https://www.mywillyspics.com/image/jg6aH
https://www.mywillyspics.com/image/jgLxF
https://www.mywillyspics.com/image/jgIDc
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yep mine is hooked up the same way. so my spare driver side parking wire should go to the blue wire on the block?
I think so. I replaced the wires and sockets in my parking lights and made the wire colors match the ones in the harness. I tested the lights with a battery first, bright one is turn signal, dim one is parking light.
That's the same horn that I have on my '64.
Maybe these will help, I used them as a check list as I hooked up each wire in the harness.
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/Left_Harness.jpg)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/Right_Harness.jpg)
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tonight's work. i put a ring terminal on the flasher red wire, and hooked it too the acc on the ign switch, and put the flasher relay in. i hooked up the 5 column wires to the 5 from the harness ( i tryed to color match the wires from harness to the column ), and no blinky, i had the key to the acc position. park lights come on as do head light. they do not come on at the same time ?? !!! could i have wired the head light switch wrong ? the hi /low switch does work for the head lights
from the flasher a yellow and black wire goes up the the steering column (not the same as this). https://www.kaiserwillys.com/media/wysiwyg/Flasher-Diagram-Update.jpg i should wrote down how the wires were matched before :(.
I went and did some checking an saw a new turn signal switch, and had this diagram https://www.kaiserwillys.com/media/wysiwyg/947350-947348-Install-Update_3.pdf this link shows 7 wires, my steering column has 5 wires black, red/orange, green, brownish/ black, and green i hooked them up the best i could . ( turn signal harness to column ) front left is yellow to yellow, front right is black to green, left rear is blue to orange, right rear orange to brown, and brakes brown to red.. and still no blinky the new turn signal switch has hazard lights which mine doesn't have..
any thoughts on either issue ? not sure what to do next ?
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tow hook,
Do you know what brand your turn signal switch is?
Chuck mentioned testing the parking/turn signal lights with a connection to a battery. One wire at a time. Bright is the turn signal, dim is the parking. Once you know which wire does what you can add tape to the wire and label what it is. Color may not help depending on how the sockets were wired.
Your headlights, from your description, sound like they are hooked up correctly. I also use a wiring harness diagram from the Service Manual. There you can see which post on the fender is headlight and which is parking. I had a detailed list and diagram with my harness and I was still writing notes in the margins to keep me straight.
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tow hook,
Do you know what brand your turn signal switch is?
Chuck mentioned testing the parking/turn signal lights with a connection to a battery. One wire at a time. Bright is the turn signal, dim is the parking. Once you know which wire does what you can add tape to the wire and label what it is. Color may not help depending on how the sockets were wired.
Your headlights, from your description, sound like they are hooked up correctly. I also use a wiring harness diagram from the Service Manual. There you can see which post on the fender is headlight and which is parking. I had a detailed list and diagram with my harness and I was still writing notes in the margins to keep me straight.
funny you ask, i just went an took a look just before this post. it's a sparton scs-3r and type that into goggle and bam https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cj3b_bulletin_board/sparton-turn-signal-switch-need-a-little-help-t3142.html
i will try this later weds and try again to wire it up
as for the parking lights bright is the turn signal dim is the parking ( not sure i get what you mean by that ) the parking light has two wires a red and a black.
i did check my service manual section I page 126 and yes one parking light wire goes to the block on the fender. so that does solve that. so i didn't have it in the right spot yet
so weds night rewire the turn signals again ( as per the link above ), and move the park light wire so it's lit when the head lights are on
thanks for the help, i'm not much of a wire guy. shoulda done some more goggling before i started :(
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The parking lights were not originally wired to be on with the headlights. First notch out on the switch = parking lights and tail lights. Second notch out, headlights and tail lights. When the headlights come on, the parking lights go off. They were like this on most American vehicles until 1968. You can make the parking lights stay on with the headlights if you want to, but that's not the way they were.
BW
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... as for the parking lights bright is the turn signal dim is the parking ( not sure i get what you mean by that ) the parking light has two wires a red and a black....
I want to believe you have a double filament bulb in your parking light socket. Otherwise the two wires wouldn't make much sense. That bulb has a big filament and a small filament (just like the tail light). So, one wire lights the big filament (bright) and the other wire lights the small filament (dim). The dim wire will connect to the block on the fender so that when you pull out the light switch the parking lights will come on. Based on which terminal you connect to on the light switch, when the headlights come on, the parking lights go off ( I believe this is original configuration) or if moved to the tail light connection the parking lights will stay on with the headlights.
Added: What Bruce said above!
Once you mark your parking light wires, you should have an easier time matching the connections to the turn signal wires.
Good work finding the info on your signal switch!!
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The parking lights were not originally wired to be on with the headlights. First notch out on the switch = parking lights and tail lights. Second notch out, headlights and tail lights. When the headlights come on, the parking lights go off. They were like this on most American vehicles until 1968. You can make the parking lights stay on with the headlights if you want to, but that's not the way they were.
BW
um wow ! that's weird, i knew they were optional in the 50/60s, but that seems odd, thanks for the info... i didn't start the rear harness yet. so i'll save that in my head for later when i do the rear. thanks
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... as for the parking lights bright is the turn signal dim is the parking ( not sure i get what you mean by that ) the parking light has two wires a red and a black....
I want to believe you have a double filament bulb in your parking light socket. Otherwise the two wires wouldn't make much sense. That bulb has a big filament and a small filament (just like the tail light). So, one wire lights the big filament (bright) and the other wire lights the small filament (dim). The dim wire will connect to the block on the fender so that when you pull out the light switch the parking lights will come on. Based on which terminal you connect to on the light switch, when the headlights come on, the parking lights go off ( I believe this is original configuration) or if moved to the tail light connection the parking lights will stay on with the headlights.
Added: What Bruce said above!
Once you mark your parking light wires, you should have an easier time matching the connections to the turn signal wires.
Good work finding the info on your signal switch!!
red wire = bright and black = dim, so i have them in the right spot now.
i got the turn signal switch wired correctly ( did have it right the first time ;) ), i have no power at the unit on the column ( i took it apart and replaced the small bulb ) and tested for voltage at the flasher. no 12 volts to the flasher, had the key in the acc postion as well, no juice seems odd.
just tested the acc on the ign switch had 12 volts, back probed the red wire to the flasher and had 12 volts. i herd a loud pop the other night in the garage ( had the harness hooked to the battery ) could smell burntness near the driver fender area, couldn't find the source though....... my guess is that flasher is bad ??
trying to get another flasher local, will update
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got the flasher @ auto zone, and the turn signals are alive !! cleaned out the dust and dirt from turn signal box. replaced the bulb in the box ( then checked it has no power ) it may come to life after i hook in the rear harness ?
ready to hook up the dash cluster i have 4 wires, and 3 studs
green from ign switch
white from fuel sender
gray from the coolant temp sensor
purple speedo dash cluster light
https://shop.willysamerica.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/cluster_id4.jpg
as per the diagram what stud does the dash light go ( purple wire number 9 and 10 on the left side diagram ) ? i see were the bulbs go up top
i put on gloves and put the bulbs in for the dash cluster, and the only bulb that lights is on the gray wire comes on with the key
so that lead me to look for other wires.... and i found a double purple,( looks like it's number 1 on the left side harness ) goes to the ign switch coil term..... on the ign switch i have battery, acc, start, and ign.
http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album116/Civvy_Master_ign_sw.jpg
so were is the coil term they speak of ????
thanks again, getting so much closer
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Good progress!
I'm hesitant to give advice or opinion on the cluster instrument since I don't have one. I'd hate it if I suggested something and it cooked a wire inside. So, what I've done is suggest reading here:
https://cj3b.info/Siblings/DJDetails/DJ3ASpeedometer.html
https://cj3b.info/Tech/FuelGauge.html
and follow the links to get smart on this instrument.
Others have jumped in and have done theirs so they may also have input for you.
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(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/SWSpeedoBack.jpg)
Maybe this will help. Don't pay any attention to the color of the wires in the above photo, they are wrong. Here are the correct colors, just remember, the oil light socket has two wires, one 16 G purple goes to the sender and the other 16 G purple goes to the ignition switch coil terminal. The amp light socket also has two wires, 16 G Gray goes to the voltage regulator terminal and the other 16 G gray wire goes to the ignition switch coil terminal. all of these sockets should have been pre-wired in your new harness.
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Also, don't be surprised if your temperature and fuel gauges don't work, it's very common on these instrument clusters. Both gauges are actually 6 volt. The fuel gauge has a mechanical oscillating voltage regulator that almost always fails and sends 12 volts to both gauges and burns them out. I am working on a fix using a solid state voltage regulator and NOS gauges, but haven't quite figured out the correct resistances yet.
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(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/SWSpeedoBack.jpg)
Maybe this will help. Don't pay any attention to the color of the wires in the above photo, they are wrong. Here are the correct colors, just remember, the oil light socket has two wires, one 16 G purple goes to the sender and the other 16 G purple goes to the ignition switch coil terminal. The amp light socket also has two wires, 16 G Gray goes to the voltage regulator terminal and the other 16 G gray wire goes to the ignition switch coil terminal. all of these sockets should have been pre-wired in your new harness.
that helps a lot... :) what is the ignition switch coil ? i assume you mean the ign stud on the key start assembly ? seems like a lot of wire on the ignition stud ?
i have a green wire as well that comes from the ignition. that goes to the fuel gauge now, so unhook that right?
white wire from the top of the tank goes to the level sender?
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what is the ignition switch coil ? i assume you mean the ign stud on the key start assembly ?
That is correct
i have a green wire as well that comes from the ignition. that goes to the fuel gauge now, so unhook that right?
Sounds like that is hooked up correctly
white wire from the top of the tank goes to the level sender?
White wire goes from the fuel tank level sensor to the terminal on the fuel gauge in the dash cluster.
You should have received a schematic from Walck's with your new harness showing all of this. If you didn't get it, I can make you a copy. It takes a little study, but it shows all the wires, the colors and where they go.
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what is the ignition switch coil ? i assume you mean the ign stud on the key start assembly ?
That is correct
i have a green wire as well that comes from the ignition. that goes to the fuel gauge now, so unhook that right?
Sounds like that is hooked up correctly
white wire from the top of the tank goes to the level sender?
White wire goes from the fuel tank level sensor to the terminal on the fuel gauge in the dash cluster.
You should have received a schematic from Walck's with your new harness showing all of this. If you didn't get it, I can make you a copy. It takes a little study, but it shows all the wires, the colors and where they go.
ok that is all hooked up and makes scence. no i didn't get one, just a 3 page copy main harness, right side harness, and and a electrical system diagram ( it does show the gauge #25 and letters to the corresponding holes but i still had wires to the wrong place, like the wrong gray wire to the acc, that really goes to the dash gauge. once us said the double gray wire, i fixed that up... had it way wrong.
i have the gray and the purple wire on the ignition switch, the amp lite ( gray wire bulb is lit , would it be lit already ?? ) and the purple ( is not lit ) the oil light i wouldn't expect to be lite, but the purple dash lights up top are not lit with the key in the acc or run poss?
i do have a double purple to a ring term from the driver side harness that isn't hooked up yet # 16 i be leave? it goes to the light switch tail light term. that should be the last of the wires that are un hooked..
electrical diagrams are like maps i'm sure how to read one 100% as of yet
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ok i put #16 to the head light switch, rear tail light terminal :). purple wire with bulb, gray wire with bulb, and green wire is on the ign stud of the key switch :). i had the wrong gray wire to the key switch. ( that wire was the amp wire ) i wonder if that pop the other night was the voltage regulator ? :'(
please let me know if this is normal :-\
key is off or acc position : park lights on, dash gauge bulbs on, hi beam bulb is on
key is off or in acc position : head lights on, dash gauge bulbs out ( with hi beams on ) dash bulbs on when hi beam is off, amp bulb goes on when head lites are on lo beam
key is run position : amp bulb on, dash bulbs off, hi/low beam no affect
something seems odd ?
if the world wasn't on fire i'd have the father in law over, he draws these for a living, to hard to try a decipher over the phone :(
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I really don't think I can do you any more good from here, it sounds like you have several wires connected incorrectly, and I can't tell you without actually looking at your harness. The head lights/dash lights/tail lights should work regardless of ignition switch position, totally independent of ignition switch, only takes power from the battery terminal of the ign switch. I would say you need to get some local help from someone who can read and understand the schematic and look at your connections.
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Here are the two schematics that I received from Walck's with my new harness, you should have received the same with yours. This should tell you all you need to know.
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/harness1.jpg)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/harness_2.jpg)
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Wow, that's a lot of colors! On my harness, there were little numbers taped on to each wire end. This helped me identify when I was connecting.
I wonder if drawing each component and illustrating each wire (color and number) going to each stud/terminal on those components would make it any easier.
I also would pull out my multimeter and use on some wires to verify continuity before adding electricity.
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I put tags on each terminal of my old harness as I removed it, then laid the old and new harness side-by-side and transferred each tag to the new harness. Everything worked the first time except for the right front parking light and turn signal which I had reversed the wire colors when I rebuilt the socket - was an easy fix. But I have been doing this sort of thing for a long time, retired after 36 years with a Caterpillar dealer. I think towhook needs someone to give him a hand on site who is familiar with how to read these schematics, it can get very confusing!
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I really don't think I can do you any more good from here, it sounds like you have several wires connected incorrectly, and I can't tell you without actually looking at your harness. The head lights/dash lights/tail lights should work regardless of ignition switch position, totally independent of ignition switch, only takes power from the battery terminal of the ign switch. I would say you need to get some local help from someone who can read and understand the schematic and look at your connections.
thanks, and i do under stand what u mean. the dash lights are the only problem i have as of now. i'll talk to the wife and see her dad is willing to stop over. we've only scene them for ten feet away for the last 9 months.... would you proceed with the rear harness ? or get i what i have right before putting it in ?
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Here are the two schematics that I received from Walck's with my new harness, you should have received the same with yours. This should tell you all you need to know.
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/harness1.jpg)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/harness_2.jpg)
indeed that's what i got, to bad i'm not good at reading that type of map, i just got the little sun images were bulbs at the end of the wires the other day... :(
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Wow, that's a lot of colors! On my harness, there were little numbers taped on to each wire end. This helped me identify when I was connecting.
I wonder if drawing each component and illustrating each wire (color and number) going to each stud/terminal on those components would make it any easier.
I also would pull out my multimeter and use on some wires to verify continuity before adding electricity.
yep it is. i wish some of the wires had a tracer, i hooked the amp wire ( on the right side harness ) to the ign switch vs the dash amp gauge/ light :'( i leave the battery unhooked after each test that i run. i've done a ton of hand drawn diagrams. hi / low switch, ign switch, head light switch, and the dash gauge....and the turn signals !!! i have a good multi meter, how ever the operator needs better trained :(
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I put tags on each terminal of my old harness as I removed it, then laid the old and new harness side-by-side and transferred each tag to the new harness. Everything worked the first time except for the right front parking light and turn signal which I had reversed the wire colors when I rebuilt the socket - was an easy fix. But I have been doing this sort of thing for a long time, retired after 36 years with a Caterpillar dealer. I think towhook needs someone to give him a hand on site who is familiar with how to read these schematics, it can get very confusing!
half of the old harness was missing up front, it had no head light switch , or any wires to the rear at all i'm going to stop down at blacks electrical service and see if they could go over it for me? and how much. they did my generator, and doing my buddys 57 3b starter. family's not keen on haven people over yet. you guys have been a great help so far. i'd like another set of eyes to look it over
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ok i called the place that did my generator , and they will go over my issues. 60$ per hour 3 last questions
i got 2 felt strips i the box with the harness, any clue were they go ?
tail light to the harness connection, use a butt splice ? a spade term ? and use srink tubing right
how did you hold the harness down going the frame rail ? kaiser willys sells clips i saw. the harness goes threw a frame hole in the front by the wire wall, and you run it on the top or bottom rail to the rear ?
thanks
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tow hook,
Not sure what the felt strips would be for. What size are they? What do they look like? Picture? Did the vendor offer any info on what they are used for?
The tail light to harness connection will be whatever the tail light needs. If you're taillights are ALA then there are connectors that must be attached to the harness. Scroll down this page of my build to see the taillights:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cj3b_bulletin_board/green-gruntt-t4658-s30.html
If your taillights are after market, the harness may be secured with screws or spades. Get what ever will connect to your lights.
The shrink wrap could help with moisture as will electrical tape.
The clips for the wiring harness differ depending on where you are securing to the body / frame. The frame clips secure the harness to the inside of the frame rail on the bottom. See Lawrence Wade's:
https://cj3b.info/Owners/WadeDetails.html
I see both Walck's and KW (more types offered for complete harness) offer clips.
https://walcks4wd.com/search.asp?keyword=harness+clip
https://www.kaiserwillys.com/nsearch/?q=harness+clip
Any clip that will hold the harness and secure to the body parts will work if originality isn't an issue.
You should also be able to find them with other vendors possibly. If you want used ones, Harry Sheets may have a lot: http://www.midwestwillys.com/
Typically, I believe there are only two frame clips (spread out on the left frame rail). You could add a third at the back if you wanted.
That hole up front where the harness goes is a change I need to make on my jeep (I didn't know the harness needed to go through that hole until later).
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tow hook,
Not sure what the felt strips would be for. What size are they? What do they look like? Picture? Did the vendor offer any info on what they are used for?
The tail light to harness connection will be whatever the tail light needs. If you're taillights are ALA then there are connectors that must be attached to the harness. Scroll down this page of my build to see the taillights:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cj3b_bulletin_board/green-gruntt-t4658-s30.html
If your taillights are after market, the harness may be secured with screws or spades. Get what ever will connect to your lights.
The shrink wrap could help with moisture as will electrical tape.
The clips for the wiring harness differ depending on where you are securing to the body / frame. The frame clips secure the harness to the inside of the frame rail on the bottom. See Lawrence Wade's:
https://cj3b.info/Owners/WadeDetails.html
I see both Walck's and KW (more types offered for complete harness) offer clips.
https://walcks4wd.com/search.asp?keyword=harness+clip
https://www.kaiserwillys.com/nsearch/?q=harness+clip
Any clip that will hold the harness and secure to the body parts will work if originality isn't an issue.
You should also be able to find them with other vendors possibly. If you want used ones, Harry Sheets may have a lot: http://www.midwestwillys.com/
Typically, I believe there are only two frame clips (spread out on the left frame rail). You could add a third at the back if you wanted.
That hole up front where the harness goes is a change I need to make on my jeep (I didn't know the harness needed to go through that hole until later).
i have reproduction rear trail lights with just bare wires , so i got the spade connector to so that. i'll get a pic of the felt strips. thanks for the links.. i'd get a set of clips ordered up.
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here's the link to the pics of my new tail lights, and pics of the old lights as well, i'm going to fix up the rust on the pass rear corner before i put the light it. make it solid, and have add body mount. i'm sure i'll be running this old tub for a year or 2.
https://www.mywillyspics.com/album/jXh8
i got the harness, wire clips and lights ready to go in, i'll post pics after the metal repair
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Sounds like you've got the tail lights worked out. I looked at your images and I still can't tell what those felt strips are for. Were they listed on your invoice in any way?
I looked up "felt" on both Walck's and KW and while both had felt products (KW even had strips intended for the radiator and the gas tank) I didn't see anything for the electrical stuff. I also noticed a listing for felt used in a breather cross over tube but for an older jeep.
Looks like you've got some buffing to do on the rear panel. Don't need your new lights falling off.....
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thanks, if i get time 2 day i'll call carl.
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up date, felt strip were from the fuel tank. rear harness installed and working. starting the brake switch. found a T that the switch threads in to, but would leak with the brake lines, it's not machined for the flare. getting closer.
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Most brake light switches would screw into the end of the master cylinder and should be pipe thread. If you cannot stop the leaking, you may need to use a mechanical switch behind the brake pedal (I had one of those but got the pressure switch replaced and stuck with that).
https://walcks4wd.com/Switch-Stop-Light-Female-Terminals_p_939.html
I had this type
https://walcks4wd.com/Stop-Light-Switch-Male-Terminals_p_1435.html
and noticed the harness connectors were now male to male so I ordered short pigtails to connect:
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3 parts stores later and i got a T that works, hope to get it in this week. the last T i had was 3 holes the whole way thru. the inverted flare had noting to rest against.
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up date,
i took it to a shop, my grounds were bad. and my turn signal switch was shorted. doing better now. midwest willys has sent the turn signal switch, and got a temp sensor, some how it broke at the ring terminal ? the amp light being on is still not solved as of yet