My Willys 3A and 3B Community
TECH FAQ SECTIONS => BODY and trim => Topic started by: Doug_3B on November 27, 2019, 05:22:20 PM
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A year or two ago I picked up an aftermarket rear seat locally for my 3B. Not sure where it originated. I bought the rear seat spring clips from Walck's.
The other day, I went to install it. My first observation is that I thought the spring clips would hold the seat in place a little tighter. It stays in place, but the slightest upward pressure and the seat pops out of the clips. Seems like it will pop right out if no one is sitting in it and I'm bouncing over some dirt roads. Is that to be expected or is something else wrong?
Additionally, I find that the seat sits too far back. It won't fit in place unless the tailgate is down/removed. Not a huge deal to cut the welds holding the seat frame to the mounting brackets, move it forward, and re-weld, but I wanted to ask the question before I went ahead and did that. Is this normal with the current aftermarket seats? The tub is all original off a 53 CJ3B. Thanks!
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/11/27/IMG_0836a.jpg)
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/11/27/IMG_0823.jpg)
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/11/27/IMG_0824.jpg)
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2019/11/27/IMG_0837.jpg)
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Wow, Doug!
First time (that I can recall) I've seen an aftermarket up close. Thanks for posting those rear legs.
My seat is the CJ2A #2 style seen here:
http://cj3b.info/RearSeat.html
In that article, there's actually some good images (follow the links - they take you to some more good images for comparison). One shows where the transition from bottom frame bends up to the backrest frame. You can see there about where it is welded. My frame measures (crudely from a yard stick) from the outside edge of the front leg back about 8"-8.25" where the bend begins. I can get better measurements but will take a while.
Here's an image I took a while back for a jeep owner who had those rear leg "pegs" missing. You may be able to build up the material but as is, it seems a bit fragile.
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Walck's offers reproductions for the rear seat leg lock: https://walcks4wd.com/leg-lock-rear-seat-cj2a-cj3a-cj3b-dj3a-station-wagon.html (https://walcks4wd.com/leg-lock-rear-seat-cj2a-cj3a-cj3b-dj3a-station-wagon.html)
Looks a bit more robust that the one in your photo.
(https://walcks4wd.com/media/catalog/product/cache/4448eff6e499fb6396c1554068ed87a9/6/6/663170-2.jpg) (https://walcks4wd.com/media/catalog/product/cache/4448eff6e499fb6396c1554068ed87a9/6/6/663170.jpg)
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This is good news!
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They are a bit pricey at $28. each!
I found this photo on the CJ3B page http://www.cj3b.info/RearSeat.html (http://www.cj3b.info/RearSeat.html) that shows that the leg should be more vertical that your reproduction. Would raise the seat back and stop it from hitting the tailgate.
(http://www.cj3b.info/Photos/Tech/Seat/RearSeat/CJ2ALateLegs300.JPG)
This is interesting as I need a rear seat for my '64 project and had thought about one of the reproduction seat frames. I think I will look for an original one now.
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IMO ... as Chuck said "more vertical"... and it "looks longer" too to me, which would push the back forward. Chuck's pic example appears to follow Russ's measurement on "frame to mount placement", further forward on the frame, (how I would make it fit inside) with some significant welds there possibly from "re-attachment"(?), as well as unless an optical illusion from the angle of the pic, the seat back seems "more towards 90 degrees" to the bottom seat than the new frame below. I wonder if Doug's frame was for SWs with room behind them? Also look at the front feet where with this one the flat pieces face upward while in Doug's pic they face downward??? Downward seems like it would help prevent the "bounce out" issue. This will be interesting to find out the "results".
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Awesome! Great information guys. So glad I got a great "deal" on this seat ;D ;D ;D Now I know why he got rid of it!
The pegs on this reproduction seat seem puny compared what you guys are showing me. Now to decide whether to try to build them up or spend the $$ on the new ones.
Agreed that the rear legs seem way short on this one compared to the ones in the pictures and that the seat appears to be attached too far back to the legs.
By the time I'm done with this, I will have more work into this one than if I had just fabricated a frame like I had planned! ;D ;D ;D
I'll try to remember to update this thread when I have it all sorted out.
Thank you, as always, for the information and advice!
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Doug,
I got called away and needed to add to this thread. So glad you other guys chimed in.
Walck's (link changed - if it gets changed again, search on their website for rear seat leg lock):
https://walcks4wd.com/Leg-Lock-Rear-Seat-CJ2A-CJ3A-CJ3B-DJ3A-Station-Wagon_p_2198.html
Fabrication:
If you're one of those guys (handy with a welding machine/bending tubes), I have a suggestion. I too was going to remark on the legs. If you had good measurements on leg dimensions, you may want to make your own then weld to that frame.
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This update is worth mentioning (plus I wanted this new information to show on our forum in case someone is in need). There is a member on the CJ2A Forum, from South Africa, making these pegs. It's machined and assembled/ welded. Looks very stout and rugged. Read about it here:
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/topic43765_post473985.html#473985
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Rus,
I need to visit the forum more often; just now seeing your post. I went over and contacted him about getting a set of those pegs. I hope he still has some available!
Thank you for sharing the information!
Doug
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Let us know if you were able to buy a pair. I would not mind getting a pair myself. Do you know his email address?
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I am the maker of the rear seat pegs in question!
You can contact me via the CJ2A page or directly via email on mike_kagera@yahoo.co.uk
I have enough stock to make 50 assembled pegs with washers, or 25 pairs. 1 pair needed to repair a seat. I can offer these for sale ready welded as an assembled unit, or if you prefer to do your own welding, then as loose washers and spears. Your choice.
Pricing is $12.50 per assembled washer and spear unit, ie $25 for a pair to repair 1 seat. I live in South Africa and assemble and finish these in my garage at home. Shipping is obviously from here. I have already shipped a set to the USA and they took around 6 weeks to arrive. Shipping cost is determined by weight, currently $5 per pair via the ordinary air mail service. If you buy more than 1 set then price will be adjusted accordingly. So the cost for 1 pair is $30 delivered to your door. If you want faster or insured shipping with tracking, then I will have to get you a quote.
Let me know if you are interested. Payment will have to be via Paypal unless you want to do an international wire transfer. I think Paypal will be easiest and probably cheapest. My Paypal address is mike_kagera@yahoo.co.uk
You can also contact me directly on this same email address if you prefer.
Take care all,
Mike
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I PM'd Mike and he said he posted here on the forum and will be visible soon after approval.
The short answer is yes, he has some available and can ship for a total of $30.00 (based on previous shipping to US). Give him some time to get on and I'm sure he'll be easier to contact then.
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Hi Doug and Rus and Chuck!
Luckily I happened to see Mike's post shortly after he made it, and I approved it. Great that this long-running thread is coming to a helpful conclusion!
Derek
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Thanks to all. Mike, I just sent you a PayPal payment for one pair. Thanks.
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Thank you all for helping jeep owners around the world connect!
Doug and Chuck, I have received your Paypal payments - thank you.
This past weekend I welded up and re-finished your respective seat peg pairs. I was working yesterday but hope to get them in the mail today. Give them around 6 weeks to arrive. If they simply do not arrive please contact me via the email address given above.
Take care all,
Mike
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I heard back from Mike today. He said the parts are in the mail for both Chuck and I.
It's going to be great to get this rear seat figured out and installed in the Jeep!
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Wow! So glad the shipping worked out. I'm sure the wait was frustrating!
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As a follow-up, the rear seat pegs I ordered from Mike showed up today and they look great! Thanks, Mike!
Mine showed up the same day! And I agree, they DO look great. I can't wait to try them out.
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OK, I ordered a set.
Either of you install yours yet?
Any trick to getting them aligned?
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I'm still looking for a seat frame to install them on! I just ordered them to have on hand for that "some day" project.
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I haven't done anything with mine yet either. I have to dig out the welder today or tomorrow to weld an O2 sensor bung into the YJ's exhaust and install a catalytic converter or they're going to pull my registration for no emissions. While the welder is out, I may take a look at the seat frame and weld in the new pegs. I have to figure out whether to shorten the front legs of the seat or lengthen the back ones so the seatback clears the tailgate.
Simple projects, but man it takes some dynamite lit under my butt to get me moving these days!
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OK, so I cleaned up a spot to work in the garage, and dug out the welder today. The seat is installed, seat-back problem fixed, and new pegs from Mike installed and working beautifully. Basically, I cut off the old pegs on the rear legs. I took some pipe that I had laying around and added it in. I'll go through the process below. Yes, I could have used some smaller diameter pipe, but I didn't have any laying around and I didn't want to go looking for some. It's functional, sturdy, and hidden by the tailgate.
For my original problem, you can go back to the beginning of this thread and see pictures, but basically the seat back leaned too far back and stuck out past the rear edge of the Jeep by probably 3-1/2". Additionally, the locking pegs that came on this seat didn't lock in properly.
Here, I'm just trying to figure out how much I needed to add into the rear legs. Came out to around 2-5/8"
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/02/IMG_2156.jpg)
Here is the pipe I had laying around.
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/02/IMG_2157.jpg)
I started by cutting off just one side.
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/02/IMG_2158.jpg)
Here are the two pegs side by side. The one from Mike on the left.
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/02/IMG_2163.jpg)
No fabrication project is complete for me unless I get bit by the angle grinder. I love the mesh backed mechanics gloves, but here's what happens
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/02/IMG_2160.jpg)
I decided to weld the new peg onto the extension first.
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/02/IMG_2159.jpg)
I haven't welded in awhile....
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/02/IMG_2161.jpg)
Then I placed the peg into the clip, and then the seat leg into the extension. This way I was sure to have the alignment correct. Tacked it in place and then removed and finished welding.
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/02/IMG_2162.jpg)
Then you do the same to the other side. I measured to make sure the seat sat level to the bed.
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/02/IMG_2164.jpg)
Little bit of paint and she don't look bad from far away
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/02/IMG_2165.jpg)
Clears the tailgate and will clear a hard top or soft top
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/02/IMG_2168.jpg)
Now, one day I'll put some cushions on it
(https://www.beamingpix.com/images/2021/01/02/IMG_2167.jpg)
The pegs from Mike work great; highly recommended! The seat used to pop out of the clips practically by themselves, but not anymore! To get the seat out, you have to really want it!
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Excellent!
Great pictures as always....
I don't think I need to add any height but I'll probably just cut the old pegs off and weld the new against what remains.
Good work on getting the alignment correct....:)
Randy
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On eWillys.com today, there is an interesting article on "rear seat comparisons". Most of the info came from the famous Derek's "CJ3B info site" referenced in the article plus other links too. It may not help you find the seat you want, but it may broaden your search criteria by models that may have used the seats you want.
http://www.ewillys.com/2021/01/03/image-comparing-rear-seats-dj-3a-seats/comment-page-1/#comment-2503540
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Excellent work! The leveling process ingenious!
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So glad these pegs have worked out, and that y'all are happy with them! Great install Doug!
As a note, the latest set to be sent out arrived after "only" 6 weeks, so the original months-long shipping delay on the first sets definitely seems to have been due to COVID related issues in mid-2020.
Tale care all.
Mike
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Following...
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How easily adaptable is an M38 seat to a 3A?
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I believe the tub dimensions in the back are the same as CJ's. I seem to recall that mil seats were attached to the insides of the wheel wells with brackets that allowed them to be pivoted forward. If you've found one, you could easily check the measurements of your jeep wheel well spacing against the seat to know.
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I see some at vendors and they seem more plentiful. My V-35 never came with one, so Im not super concerned about accuracy. I just want to fit 2 more passengers in the best vehicle ever built :)
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An M-38 rear seat will fit in a CJ-3A or CJ-V35/U but you will also need to get all the seat brackets and install them too.
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Hi I am new to the Willys forum and in process of getting a rear seat for my 49 CJ3A. How does the back of rear seat keep from popping up in air if you slam on brakes? It seems the rear brackets would not be super secure.
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The original clips should have enough bite to keep the seat in place. My seat required a bit of a push to release the back legs. By comparison, does your passenger seat flop up on hard braking?
I suppose there is a scenario where there would be enough force to lift the seat out of its clips but mostly that force is lateral. And we're talking about 45-50 mph with 9" brakes in most cases.
Do you have a seat that seems overly loose?
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no I haven't even mounted one yet. It was a curious question as I will be letting my kids sit back there. Ill need lap belts now that I think of it....
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If you plan to install lap belts, then you will need to modify the rear seat mounting brackets, as the seat is designed to be easily removable, and I doubt it would stand the strain in a crash situation. If I were thinking about seatbelts, I'd look into modifying a CJ5 seat such as what * Williams did on the CJ3B page:
(http://www.cj3b.info/Photos/Tech/Seat/Williams/WilliamsSeatTop.jpg)
http://www.cj3b.info/Tech/WilliamsRearSeat.html (http://www.cj3b.info/Tech/WilliamsRearSeat.html)
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Always anchor your seat belts to the floor, not to the seat frame. Of course in this case if the seat tries to get out, your kids are trapped between the seat and the belts. Does the “bayonet” on the seat’s rear legs extend through the holders far enough to drill and pin them?
BW