My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: Goggleeye on June 27, 2018, 01:18:25 PM
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Just a little background information, I'm hardly a mechanic, and I don't have anybody close to help. I have the tools and basic knowledge, but that's about it.
Got my dad's 53 out of the barn, as it had sat for about the last 12-14 years. So far, we have got it running, but not well.
I replaced the fuel tank with a plastic one (the old one was rusted horribly), made sure the engine was loose, put in fresh fuel, cleaned the points, and she fired up right away. Purred like a kitten, just like I remembered. Drove her around the farm (About 1 mile) and ran great. On the second trip, she died/sputtered. Would run at an idle, but not with any throttle. Like it was running lean/out of fuel, but I'm not sure.
I replaced the fuel filter, then I rebuild the solex carb, put in new plugs (the old ones looked great). Still the same problem. Fuel is getting to the carb - I disconnected the fuel line at the carb and it pulses with every turn of the engine, so I assume the fuel pump is not the issue, but I just don't know what is. Can a fuel pump work fine at idle but not under a load?
Some other info that might help: It starts and idles fine, and the throttle is responsive at first. Then after a few revs, it begins to hesitate and then wont rev up at all, but rather almost dies, but usually doesn't, but still doesn't recover to the point it will rev normally again. Have to turn it off, let it sit and try again.
I'm lost at this point. Any suggestions?
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After sitting for 13 years, I would think there is gum in the fuel lines, pump, carb. You might try a serious fuel line/carb cleaner or maybe even rebuild or replace the pump. I would think you could blow out the lines okay, but I'm guessing the pump parts are dried out.
As for the Solex, one of the nice things about the Solex is that you can remove and blow out about every jet that makes the carb run in about 5-10 minutes. There are maybe 7 brass hex fittings on the outside of the carb. They all unscrew (14mm, 12mm, and 8mm.) and the jet or seat comes right out. Blow them out and replace. There is a very small "float chamber" which I would think carb cleaner could address. The nice thing also about the Solex is very little gas stays with the carb when it isn't running, so you're likely to have less gum in the carb.
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Thanks for the advice.� Took the fuel pump off and blew out the lines, and disassembled the fuel pump.� Had 1/4" + of rust sediment on the top half, and the piece of rubber on the intake side was hard, cracked, and misshaped.� Any suggestions on rebuilding or buying new?� I've read something also about the solex carb needing less fuel pressure?� Are there any modifications I ought to make at this point?
Thanks,
Mark
Here is the pump that is on there now. https://walcks4wd.com/fuel-pump-no-bowl-l-f-head.html
and here is one at o'reilley's, will it work?
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/precision-fuel-pumps-4492/fuel---emissions-16775/fuel-pumps-tanks-16472/fuel-pump-strainer-16843/fuel-pump-12322/83db8e3f0135/precision-fuel-pump/m22022/5694322/1953/jeep/willys?q=fuel+pump&pos=1
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if the pump you took off did not have the spacer behind it, I think it is a 3/8 spacer but not sure, you will be getting to much fuel pressure even for the Carter WO stock carburetor. Many of these new aftermarket fuel pumps eliminate the space and deliver less fuel pressure without the spacer. They sell for about $35. Have you blown out the carburetor yet?
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Does it have a makers name on it?
I'd sure call Walck's and ask if they have a rebuild kit.
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Ask him if he has the rebuild kit for the stock pump. I know they make them. Also if you did not have the spacer between the block and the pump you might get one of those also. I think a stock pump will do about 6 PSI without the spacer and if I recall it should be 3 or 4 PSI.
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if the pump you took off did not have the spacer behind it, I think it is a 3/8 spacer but not sure, you will be getting to much fuel pressure even for the Carter WO stock carburetor. Many of these new aftermarket fuel pumps eliminate the space and deliver less fuel pressure without the spacer. They sell for about $35. Have you blown out the carburetor yet?
There was no spacer, just a gasket. Is it a fuel pump that sells for $35? From everything I've found, the glass bowl style pump is the cheapest and sells for about 60 at Walck's. As for the carb, I completely cleaned and rebuilt it yesterday.
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Fuel pumps on Ebay sell for about $35 to $40, Mine has been on my Jeep for 3 years now and no spacer.
https://www.ebay.com/p/Jeep-Willys-MB-GPW-Cj2a-Cj3a-Fuel-Pump-Glass-Bowl-Style/901443415?iid=271943618561&chn=ps
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Awesome, thank you! Do you have a solex carb? Just wondering about the fuel pressure issue?
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I would contact the seller. He is a good guy and see what he recemends with this pump. My pump did not require one. I thought at first it was bad because it gets very little fuel in the bowl. I contacted the seller and he said that was normal and it works fine.
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Goog, I have that pump with a Solex and no pressure regulator. I think the whole "press reg needed thing" is way overblown for the L134. These pumps deliver 2-4 lbs which is fine with the Solex. Now if you had a pump that delivered say, 10-15, that would be an issue. This pump works GREAT with my Solex.
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Sometimes you will get similar symptoms when the coil is failing or the condenser is shot.
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I have been there with the coil myself. Drove me nuts. Just last weekend went for a short ride and the Jeep has been runnung great and it started to miss. The more I drove the worse it got until it would not even idle. managed to make it to my daughters only a few miles away. Checked all I could field testing, reset points, and found nothing. Got my truck and trailer and brought it home. Pulled the cap off and checked the advance and pulled the points. Seemed the points were only firing on a small part on the side of them. Looked like the arm was sorta bent to the side. Replaced them and it ran fine again. So i ordered the Hot Spark electronic ignition, Starts better and it idles flawlessly now. Can't say I notice any difference in power but it seems to just run smoother. Cost was about $64 for the module. No more points, condenser or checking timing.
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Thanks for all the advice. Got my new fuel pump today, can't wait to install and see what happens. Also ordered new points and condenser. I was really toying with the idea of the electronic ignition. And too, I was wondering about the coil, but the fact that it would still restart after short rest made me think that that wouldn't be enough time for the coil to cool down and that the coil wasn't the issue. I'll get the new parts in and report back.
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No cigar. New fuel pump, condenser, cap, and rotor, adjusted the points, same problem. Starts great, purrs smooth. Backed it out of the garage, took off down the road, got 100 yards and it wants to cut out with anything more than an idle. If it does die, it starts right back up. However, it seems to spit/miss after I ran it, but it didn't miss at all when I first started it after doing the work. Could this be a coil issue? Or perhaps a stuck valve?
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Do you have an in-line fuel filter?
If the old pump had a lot of rust/sediment you can bet there is more where that came from.....the fuel tank.
Are you using the original fuel tank or a new tank? Have you drained or flushed the fuel tank?
Here is a picture of the filter I took out of my CJ-5....I had already drained and flushed the tank but there was plenty of residual.....I used an inline fuel filter for about a year before changing to a Carter bowl type filter...
Your carburetor may need cleaning also....
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Fuel is clean as can be. Put in a new poly tank, blew out the lines, new fuel pump, new fuel filter, and rebuilt/cleaned the carb.
Mark
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OK...I thought you said you had found the sediment in the fuel pump after you cleaned the carb.
Is the filter between the carb and pump or the pump and tank?
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Pull the distributor cap and check the distributor shaft for to much end play. Bring your points up on high cam like you were setting them and then grab the top of the shaft where the rotor is and see if you have any play. If you do you will notice the points opening or closing out of spec. I had this problem twice and went to a bronze oil-lite bushing and solved thee issue. This can definitly make it run erratically. Also the coil is cheap so try it. I would get an internally regulated one if you're running 12 volt and do away with the ballast of you have one. Ballast can overheat and go bad also. I use a early 70 model chevrolet internally regulated. However I just switched to Hot Spark electronic distributor module using the stock distributor and had to get a coil that measured 3.0 ohms or higher. Auto Zone has one of those if your planning electronic. I can get you the part numbers if interested.
Ron
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OK...I thought you said you had found the sediment in the fuel pump after you cleaned the carb.
Is the filter between the carb and pump or the pump and tank?
That's right, I did, but the filter is between the carb and pump. And I don't think too much was breaking loose from the pump, as there didn't seem to be too much in the filter.
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I figure if I'm going to get a coil, I may as well go ahead and get an electronic distributor. What's another hundred bucks, right? It's getting frustrating chasing down this problem. I guess it doesn't hurt to change a lot of the other things I did, though. And, I'll have a bunch of spare parts for my cj2a that I'm going to start once I get this one trail ready.
Ron - What are the part numbers for the Hot Spark module and coil?
Thanks,
Mark
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I had a very similar issue with a bad condenser. 2 brand new ones out of the box were bad. Third one I bought finally worked. I'd also check and make sure the spring for the points is properly set. This will cause a misfire at high rpm.
By the way, I run a Solex. Unlike others I have NO problems with it. The starting process takes a bit getting used to. I initially ran it without a pressure regulator but it was really rich and I stunk like exhaust every time I drove it. I now have an inline Holley regulator set at about 1.5-2 psi. Runs perfect.
Good luck with your quest to figure this out. Just remember that that's the fun part. Once you get it all fixed up you'll have nothing left to do :'(
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I had a very similar issue with a bad condenser.� 2 brand new ones out of the box were bad.� Third one I bought finally worked.� I'd also check and make sure the spring for the points is properly set.� This will cause a misfire at high rpm.
By the way, I run a Solex. Unlike others I have NO problems with it.� The starting process takes a bit getting used to.� I initially ran it without a pressure regulator but it was really rich and I stunk like exhaust every time I drove it.� I now have an inline Holley regulator set at about 1.5-2 psi.� Runs perfect.�
Good luck with your quest to figure this out.� Just remember that that's the fun part. Once you get it all fixed up you'll have nothing left to do :'(
I have a Solex too and like it a lot. Lkap, did you know that you can buy main jets? Just google Solex main jet and there a lot of places that sell them. They come with a #127.5 which for here is much too rich. A #115 is just right for Colorado (mile up). Maybe buy some different sizes and play around. I used to have a press. reg. but it gave me fits. Took it off and now everything is happy joy. You don't want a high pressure pump though, but ours should run about 2-4 psi, and my Solex seems very happy.
Gogg, I have the Pertronix 3.0 ohm "Flamethrower" coil and it has the internal resistor. I also use the Omix electronic dizzy. For me, this has been a winning combination going on over 10 years now. Never a problem.
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Okay, I think the issue comes back to the carb, somehow.� All new ignition.� Plugs, wires, condenser, points, coil, the timing advance is loose and moving, and a little, but not much free play on the distributor shaft.� New fuel pump, clear fuel under good pressure is making it to the carb.� It ran for a short while, now I can't even get it to start.� If I drip fuel through the carb barrel, it will fire, but not otherwise.� When it was running, I had to choke it to get it to run smooth.� I've rebuilt and cleaned the carb.� I don't know what else to do.� Any ideas? What carb adjustments can a person make on the Solex?
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http://www.m201.com/tech/solex.htm
You have no doubt seen this.� There is a lot more out there.� I have to leave the house right now.� There is a good adj. explaination on the G503 by a guy "EricofNorway.� Maybe I can find it when I get home.�
edit: this isn't the exact carb you have, but close enough. Adjusts the same.
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Update - Had myself a really stupid moment. Not as bad as "is there gas in the gas tank," but almost as bad. There is a little rubber gasket on the banjo fitting. It had deteriorated and was clogging the fuel passage. Now, one problem seems to be fixed, but in all my work, I created a new problem. It is now missing, but it is a constant miss. So now I guess I get to track down another problem.
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Another idiot moment. Thought I was paying close attention when I was putting on new plug wires. I'm going to blame it on my kids distracting me, but yeah, wrong order. But now she's running like a hot rod. Now it's just a matter of getting her ready to license.
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Congrats!!
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It feels good to get it running. It's been fun working on it with the boys. Drove it to my brother's place and was able to give my mom a ride. Brought back good memories of dad and her motoring around in the jeep. Appreciate all the help/advice you all gave. We learned a lot. Now it's just a matter of fine tuning some things and getting it inspection ready.
I'm sure I'll have more questions to come.
Thanks again,
Mark
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Congrats Mark, glad you got it going. Glad you were persistent. That's what it takes.
Ron