My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: LKap on April 26, 2017, 05:21:37 PM
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I am not sure what I did wrong! I just tried to set the preload with my new kingpin bearings. Everything seamed to go together just fine and after I bolted and torqued the caps down the preload seemed to be good at about 14 lbs. I unbolted everything so I could put the seals on and when I took a look at the bearings they were damaged. It looks like I didnt have them set perfectly before I tightened everything up. Has anyone ever had this happen before?? Bearings were brand new from Walcks. Regardless it looks like I'm ordering new bearings >:(
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It looks like they were not seated right. Been awhile since I have been in there so one of these guys will know for sure. Sometimes it takes a little time for a reply so hang in there. I think I got my bearings, I think they were national bearings, at Advance auto and used a promo code on them. Might save you a few bucks.
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Thanks for the reply. That's what I'm thinking - not seated right. I hope someone can chime in on how to tighten the kingpin caps down the right way so this doesn't happen again!
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If I recall they just slip in by hand. Did you tap or hammer them in?
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My only thought is maybe the outer race/cup is not fully seated, and so the bearing is sitting a little too high when you tighten the caps...
This is a picture of one that came out of my CJ-5.....but it had been in there for 50 or 60 years...
Do you have pictures of the knuckle?
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The type of damage to the new bearing is a bit of a head scratcher.
There are old style knuckles and a newer style knuckle. The old style requires shims on both the top and bottom king pins. The newer style only requires shims on the upper king pin. There is a post here somewhere that shows the differences quite nicely. I can't find it right now.
Can you post a photo of the lower king pin area on your knuckles?
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I'm pretty sure I have the old style. I researched this extensively before I started so I wouldn't screw up ;D. There were shims on both the top and bottom when I took it apart. I used the same shims as a starting point when I reassembled. Could it be that I don't have enough shims. Attached are pics of the raced - pretty sure they are all the way seated. I will post a pic of the knuckles when I get home.
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Hawk - here are the picks of the bottom of the knuckle
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You're right. That is the older style. Load it up with extra shims. Tighten each kingpin nut a little at a time until you reach the recommended torque. Test, then remove shims, tighten, test remove etc...until you reach the recommended foot pounds.
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I read over on the 2a page that the kingpins are torqued down to 55-65 foot pounds. Seems a bit high? Is this correct?
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That does seem high....the head bolts are only torqued to 60-70 ft lbs..
They are 5/16 aren't they?
There is a table here for standard bolt torque values...lots of others on the net too...
http://www.engineersedge.com/torque_table_sae_ftlbs.htm
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I was referencing this page - seems legit
http://www.cj-2a.com/techtips/specs/torques.html
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Well, you can try it.
Some of the early jeeps had a one piece steering arm/king pin cap, which is what they might be referring to....
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You hit it with the cap bolts. There are two that are longer than the others. The long ones hold the guard on top. Easy mistake to make. Oilly
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How would the bolts hit the bearing? I checked and there are a couple that are a little longer. Do I need to test the preload with the guard????
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I didn't test preload with the guards.�
I have seen drawings showing bolts and drawings showing studs with nutts. I can't say which is stock on a 3A.� Both of my 49 3As have studs in all locations...top and bottom.� My 2A has all studs on the bottom.� The top has bolts toward to wheel and studs toward the axle.
With Studs, I've never had bearing damage when setting preloads.
(http://www.mywillyspics.com/images/2017/10/05/image_zps15b687c0.md.jpg) (http://www.mywillyspics.com/image/qYiH)
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Hawk - I agree studs or bolts shouldn't make a difference. I have been mulling this over in my head to try and figure out where I messed up. The most plausible thing I can come up with is that I must have over-tightened one side of the cap forcing the bearing to sit up on the opposite side. Then when I tightened the other side of the cap down I must have pinched the edge of the bearing. Sound feasible?? I guess you have to tighten the cap bolts/studs just like you would on the engine head. I'm gonna try to stop at NAPA tomorrow after work to see if I can get a bearing locally before I reorder from Walks - anyone know the part number?
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I'd think about what John said. Check the length of the bolts before you ruin another set of bearings.
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How would the bolts hit the bearing? I checked and there are a couple that are a little longer.� Do I need to test the preload with the guard????
Just measure the depth of the hole, length of the bolt/stud. If you look up inside, the studs/bolts should not protrude deeper than the knuckle threaded holes. ;)
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I really can't see how the bolts or studs could damage the bearings. Wouldn't the bearings have to be out of their place to be hit by the bolt? If that's the case it would be difficult to even get the bolt in. But it has been awhile since I did mine so maybe I am forgetting something.
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I just replaced the front axle shafts and had both knuckles apart. There is no way the bolts can interface with the bearing. The bearing is on a stub shafr on the cap that bolts to the knuckle.
When you push the cap and bearing into the knuckle it should self align because the cap slides into the knuckle housing. As I remember the bolt holes don't go all the way through the knuckle housing.
To be honest I can't imagine how you damaged your bearings.
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I finally figured it out. Oilleaker (John?) is totally correct. Some of us do not have studs, but bolts that attach the kingpin caps. There are 4 bolts that are a bit longer for attaching the brake guards. I did not pay attention when setting the preload without the brake guards and must have used the longer bolts. Carlsjeep- yes the thread holes do go all the way through the knuckles and if you use the longer bolts they will hit the edge of the bearing and cause the damage I experienced. (Reference the pic below!).
Good news - we all learned a valuable lesson. More good news - I just set the preload with the CORRECT bolts and everything went smoothly. Bad news - I wasted $80 in trashed bearings :D
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Who would have ever thought that? I also have the bolts and do not remember if I did that right or not but everything worked smooth so I must have caught. Nice to know though for future reference. Good job John on figuring it out. Now to can move on to your next problem!!!!
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Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qil7aY7HWkA&t=1475s