My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: specialty on February 20, 2016, 11:24:07 AM
-
Does anyone have a sketch of the proper assembly of the drag link components and the order they go in? I have seen the images but seems some of the parts are left out. I realize that the front and rear are assembled differently but not sure of the sequence of assembly on the 3A. Mine was missing some parts I think and not assembled correctly when I took it apart.
I am down to the last details now on my chassis rebuild. I have rebuilt or replaced about everything so far. I will soon be back on the body. Have all the metal repair done on that I did last fall. Moving along and hope to be on the road this summer sometime. Thanks
-
3A & M38
-
You may find that the dust cover, #6 and #7 in Ryan's post, is generally a notorious bad fit...
I used tie wraps to hold them is place...so far, so good...
-
Ryan thanks for the diagram. I found the first one but on the rear of the drag link they only show the use of 1 ball seat. On the second diagram they show both on the rear of the drag link. Both drawings show using ball plug on the bell crank end and 1 ball seat. I just couldn't figure out why they didn't use 2 ball seats on the rear on the first drawing unless they just didn't show it. Other than that I see no difference in the 2 images.
-
CJ-5 Good idea. I guess that explains why I never had either one of those when I took it apart! Thanks, I will do that.
-
Ryan thanks for the diagram. I found the first one but on the rear of the drag link they only show the use of 1 ball seat. On the second diagram they show both on the rear of the drag link. Both drawings show using ball plug on the bell crank end and 1 ball seat. I just couldn't figure out why they didn't use 2 ball seats on the rear on the first drawing unless they just didn't show it. Other than that I see no difference in the 2 images.
I think I always used both on the rear like in the M38 diagram...I forget now. And yes, the repop dust shields are a terrible fit. If you have your original ones use those instead along with the new rubber dust covers. You may still need cable ties or hose clamps to keep them in place.
I've also found the repop threaded end plugs to be a poor fit and more than once have reused the originals.
I have an NOS M38 drag link complete with springs, seats plugs etc. Everything but the dust shields. Still in cosmoline. Let me know if you are interested.
-
Ryan thanks for the diagram. I found the first one but on the rear of the drag link they only show the use of 1 ball seat. On the second diagram they show both on the rear of the drag link. Both drawings show using ball plug on the bell crank end and 1 ball seat. I just couldn't figure out why they didn't use 2 ball seats on the rear on the first drawing unless they just didn't show it. Other than that I see no difference in the 2 images.
I think I always used both on the rear like in the M38 diagram...I forget now. And yes, the repop dust shields are a terrible fit. If you have your original ones use those instead along with the new rubber dust covers. You may still need cable ties or hose clamps to keep them in place.
I've also found the repop threaded end plugs to be a poor fit and more than once have reused the originals.
I have an NOS M38 drag link complete with springs, seats plugs etc. Everything but the dust shields. Still in cosmoline. Let me know if you are interested.
Thanks for the offer on the drag link. I was reading some older post about the threads not being a good fit but mine went right in. About the only thing left to do on my chasis is the steering knuckles. I removed one shim on the right side and it tightened up very nice with very little play but I didn't get that lucky on the left. About a 1/4 inch of movement on the tire up and down. I understand that if one side needs done do both. I need new ball seals anyway and I am sure the axle seals could use replaced while I am at it. I already repacked the bearings and new hub seals, that's when I noticed the play in the knuckles. What is this fish scale thing about to check the load?
-
If you are in there already I'd do all the bearings and seals for both steering knuckles. Much easier to get at them while you already have it all apart.
Below is a page from the service manual explaining the fish scale thing. The entire manual is available for download here if you don't already have it:
http://www.eastcoastwillys.org/universal-service-manual---cj2a--3a--3b--5--6---dj-3a.html
-
Thanks Ryan, this will be a big help in doing this. I have not ordered the bearings, seals and races yet but that will be my last task on the chassis as far as I know of. However I am sure there will be some other things I need to do but I don't know what as far as I know everything has been replaced and in working order.
-
Excellent stuff offered here by Ryan.
Specialty,
Keep in mind that the instructions shown are describing the process for the newer style knuckle. If you have the older style knuckles, you will not have a shoulder at the bottom of the king pin surface. In this case, you will need to shim both the bottom and top of the king pin surfaces when dialing in your preload.
Tim
-
I was reading about that. Mine is the new style and had no shims under the bottom when I took it apart. It might be awhile before I get to this again though, with spring coming I have a ton of yard work living in the woods. Maybe a few hourd here and there. Thanks
-
Ryan and Athawk, Okay just go it put together and I may have an issue, I don't know yet. The rear went fine. The front I put the spring seat, spring, and then the ball cup in that order like the drawing. I did find out my New adjusting plug would not screw flush with the end of the drag ling not because of threads but because it's longer than the old one. So I used my old one, it looked good other than the slots a little wore out.
My issue is that my bell crank ball does not go very far back into the smaller slot on the drag ling. Maybe about half the diameter of the ball is in the smaller part of the slot it goes into. Took it back apart to make sure the spring seat was no flipped or not in right and did it again with same results. Is this normal for the bell crank not to go to far back or am I missing something? I tighten the adjusting nut as far as possible yet it is not going back any further. I guess it cant come out as long as the adjusting screw does not back off. What you'all think? Normal?
-
specialty, be sure when you assemble your drag link that you properly adjust the end caps as described in the repair manual. Also you may want to make sure the threads are really clean and free of burrs. I would assemble end cap screws (plugs) without any of the internal parts just to see if you are getting enough travel. I had a simmilar issue when I assembled mine the first time.
-
specialty, be sure when you assemble your drag link that you properly adjust the end caps as described in the repair manual. Also you may want to make sure the threads are really clean and free of burrs. I would assemble end cap screws (plugs) without any of the internal parts just to see if you are getting enough travel. I had a simmilar issue when I assembled mine the first time.
I did run the plug in the second time and it was fine but put the parts in and it only takes the bell crank ball back in the small part of the slot a little way. When the adjuster plug stops it stops right away indicating to me it's hitting solid.
-
Specialty,
How far in/past the outer edge of your drag link can you drive the plug?
Don't be fooled by the plug coming to a complete stop. This is the same thing mine did for the same reason Tumbleweed describes above. The threaded plug would not seat in far enough on the new kit, so I used my old one.
On my old plug, I could drive it in so far that I compressed the spring almost completely...and almost beyond the notch where the cotter pin locks it in. Note: I didn't leave it in this far. :o
Tim
-
Specialty,
How far in/past the outer edge of your drag link can you drive the plug?
Don't be fooled by the plug coming to a complete stop.� This is the same thing mine did for the same reason Tumbleweed describes above.� The threaded plug would not seat in far enough on the new kit, so I used my old one.
On my old plug, I could drive it in so far that I compressed the spring almost completely...and almost beyond the notch where the cotter pin locks it in.� Note: I didn't leave it in this far. :o
Tim� �
�
Tim, I am using my old plug. I can get it in far enough to get the cotter pin in but the shaft of the bell crank is barely back into the small part of the slot on the drag link. My new one would go in until it bottomed out buy it still had about 1/8 inch to go to get the cotter pin. After comparing the two the new one was about 1/8 inch longer. My question is why is it not going back into the slot further or is that normal as long as the cotter pin is in? Maybe the large part of the drag link slot is wallered out some. I will try to get under there and see how much the spring is compressed and go from there. Thanks
-
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/20160222_162643_zpsf2mdibaz.jpg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/athawk11/media/20160222_162643_zpsf2mdibaz.jpg.html)
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/20160222_163304_zpsohbkcxbx.jpg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/athawk11/media/20160222_163304_zpsohbkcxbx.jpg.html)
Here are a couple photos of the front connection on my 3As. Neither appear to sit very deep into the narrow portion of the slot. On the rear connection, it does sit a bit deeper on both drag links, but not by much.. The green Willys is driven regularly and has had no steering issues. The black one is a current project, but the chassis has been driven like a bat-outta-hell and I've made it home safely every time.
Hope this helps.
Tim
-
Tim, That is about the what mine looks so I guess I was just overreacting because like yours the rear is in further. I really appreciate the photos. The steering is something I want to be sure about and not wondering if it's okay for safety reasons. Looking at your pics I am good. Now as I save a few bucks it back over to the body until I save up some coins for the knuckle bearings, races, and seals. I may need some help again on that from you guys. Sure helps a lot. Thanks again to everyone.