My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: OkieFarmJeep on September 24, 2015, 11:36:59 AM
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While working on the motor today ( doing a ring amd valve job) it struck me that the valve springs look upside down. This is not a 3A engine but I was told that it was a factory NOS crate motor put in in later. My then young uncle helped my grandpa put it in and swears it was never touched since I inherited it. This is a GPW engine. So the question is, should I turn them all over or is this correct for this engine? My manual is for the 3A. It's ran all these years like this. Opinions?
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And the questions continue. The block is a GPW casting with F marked main bearing caps. However the head is not F marked. Starting to think my uncle's memory is failing and they got a short block. That said, the sn on the block looks like an early cj3a. 3J119057. Lastly, the heads I am seeing on line all have valve (tappet) clearance cast into them. Mine does not. What's up with that.
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Parts arrived last night- I decided to turn them over. What a PITA to get those little keepers off and on again! Two new valves in- all valves lapped. Going to get it back together today!
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[size=12]how about pics of the entire motor. I don't recall a GPW motor with a 3A motor serial number.[/size][/b]
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Parts arrived Friday so I flipped the springs and its going back together. Here is the bock GPW casting and the Sn from the top. Also it has 3A timing gears. So a replacement bock and crank makes the most sense except for the sn number.
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Main bearings:
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The serial # stamping is not original to this engine block. That might have been the serial # from the original block.
Is there any stamping on the boss located on the passenger side, front, top, in front of the oil filler tube? It's oval shaped.
Tim
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There is no other number, here is a photo of the boss you asked for.
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[size=12]You don't suppose this is one of the last GPW blocks returned to Willys and it sat in the yard or warehouse for a few years? The serial number would not have been stamped until it was next in line for a vehicle.[/size][/b]
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I seriously doubt that anyone in the family stamped a sn on it. They would not have cared about that back then. This was a farm jeep. Grandpa took good care of things. I wonder if a Willy's dealership might have? Bottom line is it has a 3A type serial number and no GPW sn. The block lower internals are F stamped GPW, the rest 3A. II am more curious than ever.
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Scoutpilot, I've often learned the hard way that you can never say "never" when it comes to these old Willys Jeeps.
That said, take a look at these original serial # stampings on the engines out in my shop and you'll see why I'm sceptical about this particular serial # on a GPW.
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/20130131002_zps307c3065.jpg)
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/20150928_184523_zps9yf9sxdi.jpg)
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/98c031b2-8b0a-4805-9883-dd3959d1d103_zps2vtakij9.jpg)
My understanding is there were fairly strict standards when it came to the size style and spacing of the serial # stampings.
Tim
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Against your examples, the stampings on my block don't look close. I called my uncle and asked him again. He said he knows in the late 50's they put a new engine in it. He said they ordered it and it was supposed to be brand new and was in a crate when it arrived. I asked if he knew where it was ordered from- he did not recall. Asked if they (he or grandpa) would have stamped a SN number on it, he said no. He did say he was surprised at the long stroke for the little pistons- ChaChing- that tells me they had it apart for him to know that. Again, leads me to think they got a short block and put the rest of the 3A parts on it.
Not knowing the history like you guys do- why would Ford NOT stamp a block they made? When in the build process were the numbers applied? I know there was a skew in engine to VIN numbers at one point. Maybe as Scoutpilot suggests, there was a point of excess engines sitting and that those would have been stamped only when needed? If the short block was ordered from Willys could they have stamped the number on it for the vehicle it was going in to? I know at some point they put a replacement serial number on them... could this have been before they standardized that? Its a puzzle for sure.
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These things can be puzzling.
I�ve done a bit of research on this topic. My OD Green 3A in my avatar has an unmarked GPW engine too, so I also wanted the history. What I have found� Record keeping was vague at best back then.
It is unlikely that your replacement GPW engine came directly from Willys. After the war ended, Ford had little use for the manufacturing machinery, or any surplus parts. They weren�t going to build them anymore. My understanding is the surplus parts ended up in the hands of parts distributors, Willys dealers, and repair shops. Some Ford parts may have ended up back with Willys, but this is hard to verify. If this happened�and this is a big �IF�, these surplus parts would have likely been used up on the CJ-2As. If the GPW engines were ever marked by Ford, my understanding is these numbers were intentionally removed before they were distributed.
Willys manufacturing� There is certain level of consistency when it comes to the engine serial number and the Willys serial number. This is how we can tell if the engine is likely an original to the Willys. This tells us that the engines were stamped pretty close to the time that the Willys were to receive its serial number.
The reason I posted the photos above was to show you how an original serial # stamping should look. The inconsistent nature of your serial number stamping tells me that this was not done by Willys. Some jurisdictions used the engine serial # to title a vehicle. If this were true for parts of Oklahoma, it�s possible that the engine supplier stamped it to match the title information. How does your title read?
Tim
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Tim- thanks for that info. This we may never know! The jeep was purchased new by my grandpa in Iowa. It had the earliest model Auburn Jeep a Trencher and was used on the farm in Iowa and never tagged. When I inherited it, it came with all kinds of old paperwork but no title. I had to go through Iowa DMV and get a search done, take that paperwork to OK DMV along with affidavits / the will and OK issued me a new original title. OK DMV physically inspected it as well and it still has the original body tag VIN which is 452GB119026. SO..there is the rub- the engine SN number stamped (3J119057) is not the same as the Body SN which is what I would have expected it to be if they had an unmarked block and wanted to just stamp it with something. It would make no sense for the family to just arbitrarily make up a CJ serial number that is not the same as the body. But I read that the factory had a skew of numbers... but this is supposed to be a replacement engine.. Strange! :o Thanks again for your input.