My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: SSG T on March 08, 2015, 01:47:24 AM
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First off i by no means am a mechanic! Blew a rod through the side of my block over the summer. Found a new motor off a 52 3A. put all new gaskets in her dropped it in only to find out the motor mount plate was bent. Had a hell of a time getting the timing gear off to get the plate off. I marked where the gear was pulled the replaced the plate and got the motor set in. went to the start it and it sounded like the battery or starter is dead. Both tested fine so now I�m at a standstill. Any ideas of what it could be? I was told it most likely is the timing? I don�t see any "dots" on either gear to line it up. My lack of mechanical knowledge also leads me to tap the gear on with a hammer lightly. Did I break something doing that? Any ideas??!! Thanks for the help.
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What do you mean by it sounded like the battery and starter were dead? Slow crank or no crank. Did you get the spark plugs wires back in correct order? Do you even have spark?
Ya taping that gear on was a bad idea, it could drive cam to push the welch plug out of the back end of the block causing a leak. Alway use the bolt to pull the cam and gear together.
Welcome to the site. :)
Brett
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Here is a good read on timing setup.
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/l134-ignition-timing_topic13819_post180513.html?KW=Timing#180513
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Ditto on what bretto said. The cam could have gotten pushed in and is now locking the engine up. Look on the back of the block to see if that plug is pushed out. Pop the side cover off the side of the engine to see if the cam lobes are aligned with the lifters.
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SSG,
Lets start at the beginning...Do you know whether this new engine was a runner to begin with?
Did you replace the oil pump gasket? If so, were you careful to index the oil pump? Read the "Timing" link supplied by Bretto. This really helped me understand these engines, and timing them.
Before pulling the fiber gear, you mentioned that you marked the gears. Did you make certain the gear was put back in the exact position it was in when pulled?
The light tapping may not have dislodged your cam shaft. I was able to use this approach too. I was just very careful and knew what could happen if I tapped too hard.
Tim
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Brett, its slow crank and and now no crank. See the video. I was told it was a runner but we know how that goes.
Tim, I did not pull the oil pump and I'm pretty sure the gear up perfect.
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Wow, that is a slow cranker.� If battery is 6 volt, and checked out okay, then I would double check your 'ground' connections.� On a 6 volt system, they all must be spotless or you will have this slow crank effect.
Less likely if you had them checked out...You will have this symtom if the starter is a 12 volt and you are using a 6 volt battery to turn it.
Tim
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Like I said I'm no mechanic! How many grounds are there? I only saw one small black wire coming from the fire wall that connects to the same spot on the starter as the positive battery cable.
[And yes it is 6V
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I only saw one small black wire coming from the fire wall that connects to the same spot on the starter as the positive battery cable
That is not a ground wire. The other end of that wire should be connected to you Ammeter.
For proper grounds, confirm that:
The cable coming from the Negative battery terminal is securely grounded to the frame. You will see a hole on the front of the battery tray where it should be bolted too. Make sure that area is free of paint or grease. You want good bare metal contact.
Since your system is 6V make sure you are using heavy gauge battery cables. The smaller ones typically found on 12V systems will not work and may even melt (ask me how I know this).
You should also have a braided ground strap going from the engine plate to one of the motor mount bolts.
Additionally, you'll want to make sure that any of the gauges that require it are also grounded. Filing or sanding the paint off the insides of the dash mounting holes will usually do the trick.
I had a similar issue as you are having now and solved it by improving the grounding as stated above. I'll keep my fingers crossed that yours is as simple a fix.
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I have been hooking jumper cables right from the battery to the starter. Would that elimante the ground issue?
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I have been hooking jumper cables right from the battery to the starter. Would that elimante the ground issue?
Where is the other end of the jumper cable that is attached to the negative battery terminal? If it is not a clean solid part of the frame move it there (and then make sure the engine is grounded to the frame). And the jumper cables themselves may be a problem if they are too thin, regardless of how you hook them up.
I'm saying all this assuming your wiring set up is configured like a stock 3A. If not, maybe stop and post pictures of everything so we can better determine what you have.
Either way, keep a fire extinguisher handy......
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Haha I will keep one handy. I'll also get some pics tomorrow and am getting the starter tested again. Thanks for all the help. Have a feeling its something with the timing gear I took out
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The starter also has to make a good ground contact with the engine/bell housing.
Follow Ryan's recommendations on grounding you system. I can not stress enough how important this is. A poorly grounded system reacts exactly like your Willys.
Tim
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I agree with the others on grounding. I used to fool around with 6v Farmall Cubs and they were very fussy about having a good ground.
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So, I took a look at the timing gear and it was pushed up hard to the block. Pulled it off and you can see a deep scratch on the back of it. Would that make it crank slow?? Being on to tight? Check out the pic
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Also, I found the dot on the small gear but not the big gear. Is there any other way to figure out how to put it back in???
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Can not stress enough I'm not a mechanic. Lol the timing gear was backwards! Whoops. Also found the dot by counting teeth on pics that show it. Starter is shot. Dropped it off to get rebuild. Let you know if she turns over tomorrow!
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That's actually very good news. I'm glad it's nothing worse.
Tim
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I turn the crank by hand and hear air. The front plate is still off but does this mean j don't have compression?
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Also, found a set of 2A front fenders for $40. Better shale then mine so will they fit the 3A?
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I turn the crank by hand and hear air. The front plate is still off but does this mean j don't have compression?
Where do you you hear the air from?
Also, found a set of 2A front fenders for $40. Better shale then mine so will they fit the 3A?
http://www.cj3apage.com/cgi-bin/3Ayabb26/YaBB.pl?num=1421776073
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Sounds like the front towards the crank maybe?
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SSG,
The air sound you're hearing is created by the piston movement when you hand turn the engine. You're okay.
Tim
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Thanks Tim. Should get the starter back tomorrow or next day. Do anybog you have a picture of your carb? Having trouble remembering where how the cables went and lost the phone that had the pics. Another question, what type of oil do you guys run? Thanks for all the help guys.
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I run 20w-50. It has the zzdp additive that the old flat tappet cams need for proper lubrication.
The throttle cable goes down low on the carb by the exhaust manifold. The choke is up at the top. Hopefully someone will post a better picture of the cable clamps on the carb.
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx125/willyscjmj/1949%203A/D8512472-ACF2-4B53-99E1-CCA2F529A9DC.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/willyscjmj/media/1949%203A/D8512472-ACF2-4B53-99E1-CCA2F529A9DC.jpg.html)
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That's always a tough photo to get unless that's what you're after.
This is the best I came up with. The top clip holds the choke cable. The bottom clip holds the throttle cable...
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/2cc4bd794e2521aac05a976a24a0375f_zps0a0cd498.jpg)
I was running with the same set up G-gnome uses. I recently went to the Rotella-T 15w 40. It's an oil designed for diesel engines and it already has a good amount of ZDDP (zinc) in it. I like it so far.
Tim
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(http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u84/scoutpilot1/IMG_20130820_083055_zps75e968cd.jpg)
(http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u84/scoutpilot1/IMG_20130820_083023_zpsea0d68f7.jpg)
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Mine isnt on the road yet but im running John Deere 30w oil. Its rated for older diesel engines so it should have zinc in it.
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OK so she cranks over but no spark. The coil has both green and black wires. Should the positive be coming from the distributor or is that the negative. With the cap off should rotor spin when I try to start?
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The wire from the ignition switch should be on the "+" pole and the distributor wire should be on the "-". Check your markings.
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OK so I got those right. With the cap off should I see spark? Brand new coil too
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No, you'll have to put the cap on and take a spark plug out and hold the outside to a good ground. If you don't, you'll get a good shock!
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Or. You can have someone else turn the key while your looking at the points. Two or three revolutions should tell you what you need to know.
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That was the first thing I did. No luck
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So take the plug wires out of cap then hit the starter ?1
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Leave the wires attached to the cap, leave the cap attached to the distributor....remove one wire at the spark plug end and hold the metal end of that wire about 1/8" from the block while cranking, with the ignition "on".. Hold the wire with something that is insulated or you may get the shock!
If your plug wires have rubber cups on the spark plug end then remove a plug, re-attach the wire to the plug, and then hold the metal part of the plug against the block and watch for a spark at the electrode.
You may have to do this inside or in the shade to see the spark...
Rotor should rotate counter-clockwise..you can see this with the cap off, and you should see the points open a little....just .020 inch...
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Thank you, ill give that a try tomorrow.
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Tried all that and nothing. I'm about to tow it to a shop. I give up
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Are you sure your gap is set correctly? And you double checked your wire routing and connections to ensure they are in the right spots?
This video helped me when I was setting mine up and I know others here have used it as a valuable reference too. Don't give up yet!
[media]https://youtu.be/il7nKhbjwVo[/media]
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That video helps because it shows that the rotor should spin with the cap off. Mine is not spinning. what would cause the rotor to not spin? Also where does the braided ground wire on the fire wall connect to?
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The cam turns the oil pump through a gear arrangement, and the oil pump has a slot in the top of the shaft that receives a tab from� the distributor shaft.
Has your distributor been removed lately? Perhaps it did not get fully seated when it was re-installed.
The first picture shows two distributor shafts with the tab.
The second picture shows the slot in the top of the oil pump shaft.
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Yes a friend of mine who is a pretty good mechanic put it in. maybe he didn�t get set in all the way. SO either its not set in or the distributor is shot? only two reasons it wont spin?
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Also where does the braided ground wire on the fire wall connect to? See pic
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The distributor will only go in one way as that tab is offset to one side. Make sure it seats. It's easy for it not to and but appear to be OK. Shine a light down the hole to see where the slot is on the oil pump first if it helps.
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Or, the cam and oil pump gears are not meshing and the oil pump is not turning....
Even if it's shot/worn it ought to turn...
Can you post pictures? I'm not sure what you mean by the braided ground wire....
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Or, the cam and oil pump gears are not meshing and the oil pump is not turning....
Even if it's shot/worn it ought to turn...
Can you post pictures?� I'm not sure what you mean by the braided ground wire....
I just did, Does the picture show up for?
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I see the wire now..our posts crossed in the mail!
Somebody has added that.....maybe they used it to ground the engine? There should be a ground strap near the right front motor mount, from the frame to the engine plate.
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Yes, that ground strap by the motor mount is good. if you look close you can see the old braided ground behind the new added one. leads me to believe that should be there.
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SSG,
Did your friend pull the oil pump out of the block too?
All above info is dead on. Inspect the "key" on the distributor shaft. It might have some burrs that won't let it slip fit into the oil pump slot correctly. If so, just dress the edges with a file. Don't go crazy. Just enough to get it to fit in to the slot.
Tim
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I don't know what else is behind that firewall but if it were me and you have all stock gauges and ignition I would wire it up exactly as it should be in stock form. Eliminate all the mystery add-ons and you'll have fewer variables to deal with.
The wiring on these is very simple. I'm utterly numb on all things wiring and I was able to get a couple to run. If I can do it anyone can pull this off.
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Well, first what I would do is make sure the rotor is fitted to the distributor shaft correctly. there is a flat side to the shaft and a corresponding flat inside the rotor. It should be a snug fit.
If the rotor is tight on the shaft, try to rotate the shaft and rotor together by hand. If they turn freely then the dist tab probably is not fitting into the oil pump slot....it can be a snug fit if the little anti-rattle clip is on the end of the distributor shaft...and the oil pump slot is off center so the distributor will only fit one way.
If you are able to turn the rotor by hand and it is really tight or if you hear noises inside the engine, there may be other issues...
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Hey Tim,
No he did not pull off the oil pump. I'll pull the whole thing out and check it over. found a distributor for $10 local. might pick that up and try it if none of this works. its for a 2A tho, would it still work?
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SSG,
Don't pull the oil pump!� Not just yet.
I was hoping your friend left it alone. If not done correctly, pulling, then resetting an oil pump can cause additional issues we don't want to have just yet. It would just complicate what we're all trying to do right now...get this running.
As the others have suggested, over a 65 year life span, wires and components have come and gone. You are likely to find a bunch of stragglers that do nothing...and go no where.� (we all have)
The cable you are holding in your hand may have gone to a starter solenoid, then down to your starter. Your starter looks new...and correct for a 3A, so my guess is that cable got let behind when your Willys was fixed up at some point.
Let's get your Distributor spinning, then start messing with other stuff. :)
Tim
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SSG,
Don't pull the oil pump!� Not just yet.
I was hoping your friend left it alone. If not done correctly, pulling, then resetting an oil pump can cause additional issues we don't want to have just yet. It would just complicate what we're all trying to do right now...get this running.
As the others have suggested, over a 65 year life span, wires and components have come and gone. You are likely to find a bunch of stragglers that do nothing...and go no where.� (we all have)
The cable you are holding in your hand may have gone to a starter solenoid, then down to your starter. Your starter looks new...and correct for a 3A, so my guess is that cable got let behind when your Willys was fixed up at some point.
Let's get your Distributor spinning, then start messing with other stuff. :)
Tim
its the original starter, just had it rebuilt ( Nice $190 bill)
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How hard does the engine turn over by hand with the spark plugs out? I am suspecting the engine bearings or rings are to tight.
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Turns over good i think. Not loose enough to so with out a wrench
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Carl,
If you go back and read the posts, you'll see he's solved the slow turning issue.
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Pull the starter out and check it
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Sorry guys but the Willys is on hold. My wife had a bad car accident and i have been in the hospital since Friday. Will pick up where I left off in a few weeks.
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Oh no, hope all is well, my thoughts and prayers are with you.
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SSG T .... Sad to read your last post, all the best to you and family.
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I hope she's okay. Check back in when you get a chance.
Tim
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Thanks guys. Shes going to be ok but will have a long recovery. I've been able to sneak away to the garage when someone comes to visit and you wont beleieve it but i got her to start for a few seconds! distributor wasnt set in like you guys said. Still need to play with the timming but with any luck shell be running good soon. Now for the new problem. Clutch doesnt work! >:( ! i push it to the floor and it has no resistance at all. i never did anything with the clutch when i took out the old motor and everything looked good on it when i put the new motor in. any ideas?
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It's good to hear that your wife will be OK....
Is your inspection cover on the bell housing accessible? I can't remember if your tub is on or off....
If you can take the inspection cover off you can check for movement of the pressure plate...
If the pedal arm-to-frame return spring is not installed the clutch will feel very light....the spring runs from the pedal arm to the body mount just under the drivers floor, along the outside of the frame.
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inspection cover is on, so is the tub.
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Good to hear she's doing okay.
Could the clutch cable have come loose from the clutch fork? This is all inside the bell housing, so it's going to be hard to see. You might be able to tell by pulling on the clutch cable to see if you feel tension and spring back. You can find this cable connected to the clutch linkage, then traveling in to the bell housing, below the driver seat.
Tim
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Alright guys. I need to stop jumping around and do things in order! New problem I found is its not getting gas. I original thought this line was a over flow but maybe not.... I have 3 gas lines coming from the fuel pump. On goes to the carb the other to the manifold. Where does the third one go? Was I right and its an over flow? Thanks for the help!!
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Sounds like you have a fuel pump with a vacuum booster? If so, the upper two fittings are for fuel. One is IN from the fuel tank line and one is OUT to the carb.
The lower two fittings are IN from the intake manifold and OUT to the vacuum wipers if equipped.
If your pump does not have the vacuum booster there should only be two lines. IN from the tank line and OUT to the carb
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If you have the original style fuel pump, there will be four lines connected to it.
One coming in from the fuel tank.
Another going to the carburator.
These are the only lines that carry fuel.
The other lines help boost vacuum to the original windshield wiper motors.
One would be attached to the manifold.
The other would go all the way to the wiper motor.
Tim
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I'll send pics in a few for your Tim
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So is this right? The top line on the fuel pump goes to the carb the one below that goes to manifold and the one on the right goes to the wiper? And the wiper is not hooked up. Would that cause the pump not to get gas to the carb?
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My bet is the one below the top should go to the manifold but i have it going now where. Here's another pic so you know what I mean by top bottom and right
B=bottom
T=top
R=right
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This appears to be the original style dual action pump. The top two connections are fuel in and fuel out.
The lower two are vacuum lines. The line that isn't connected would have originally pointed in the other direction. It leaves the engine compartment through the large hole on the side of the driver side cowl. It travels to the wiper motor.
It probably isn't connected if you don't have the original style vacuum wiper motor....
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/20121212002-1.jpg)
You can see the tube below the windshield arm in the photo...
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/20120527001.jpg)
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To answer your question, the disconnected line would not affect you fuel pump from delivering fuel to the carb. If the vacuum line is not plugged up, it would basically be a vacuum leak...which will cause the engine to run poorly...if at all.
Tim
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Plug the end of that line that is supposed to go to the windshield wiper....
right now it is just a vacuum leak....
when you finally get it hooked up to the wiper motor then that will effectively be a plug....
but that will have nothing to do with whether or not the fuel pump portion will work...
you need a couple inches of fuel in the tank before it will draw fuel as there is a stand-off in the tank...
Edit...Tim types quicker than I do!
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How can I be sure the fuel pump isn't working? Would this vacume leak be the reason I can only get the motor to run while holding the starter? As soon as I let off the starter it dies. Also timing isnt right. Any videos on how to set timing out there you know of?
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No...
There is an upper diaphragm in the pump for fuel, and a lower diaphragm for air. It is really two pumps in one housing....only the actuating lever is common to both..
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This is a good explanation of checking and setting the timing..
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/topic13819_post115561.html#115561
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Would this vacuum leak be the reason I can only get the motor to run while holding the starter? As soon as I let off the starter it dies.?!?!?!
Here is a good video if anyone else needs help with timing
Walck's Distributor.m4v: https://youtu.be/il7nKhbjwVo
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Excellent link Randy. That explanation was what finally helped me understand it all.
SSG, when you say..."have to hold the starter to keep it running", are you holding the key in the "start" position? If so, you might not have the key switch wired correctly.
Also, to check the fuel pump, disconnect the fuel line at the carburator. Stick a sandwich bag over the end, then turn the engine. If fuel flows into the bag, your fuel pump is pumping.
Tim
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Tim,
I have the original foot starter. So I have to push and hold it and it runs but doesnt stay running when i let off. Could this be because of the vacuum leak?
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Could this be because of the vacuum leak?
Plug the leak and see if that helps...
I think you may be dealing with a combination of problems and you need to solve each one, one at a time.
Carefully set the ignition timing.
Get reliable fuel flow to the carburetor.
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I agree with 1955CJ-5... Get some of these minor issues worked out, then move to the next. Jumping around might cause confusion for us helpers...and you.
It�s hard to tell what might be affecting your start and run condition over the internet, but there are a few things that can cause trouble.
A vacuum leak is more of a mechanical issue. You don�t want vacuum leaks. I would plug the tube to eliminate this from being an issue. Do you have the vacuum wiper motor shown in the above photo?
There are two different electrical circuits that need to be connected correctly. A start circuit and an ignition/run circuit. If you have to hold the foot start to keep it running, these two circuits are not wired correctly.
I�m just not entirely sure how your starter can be engaged while the engine is running. I would refrain from doing this until we get some electrical connections figured out.
Tell us about your key switch. You have an �off� position. One click to the right will be the �ignition� position. Is that it? Or can you turn the key one more notch to the right that will spring back?
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How about removing the wire(s) from the pos side of the coil and running a jumper from the Battery to the pos side of the coil? That would eliminate any ignition wiring issues as you try to figure out what your problem is. You would need to disconnect this wire in order to stop the engine.
Others may know better but I don�t think a vacuum leak at the combo fuel and vacuum pump will cause any kind of engine running problem.
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Excellent link Randy.� That explanation was what finally helped me understand it all.
SSG, when you say..."have to hold the starter to keep it running", are you holding the key in the "start" position?� If so, you might not have the key switch wired correctly.
Also, to check the fuel pump, disconnect the fuel line at the carburator.� Stick a sandwich bag over the end, then turn the engine.� If fuel flows into the bag, your fuel pump is pumping.�
Tim
No go Tim. Pulled the line off and its not shooting out gas.
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Your thread started by explaining that you had blown up the previous engine...do you still have it and does it have a fuel pump on it that works?
Is the fuel tank clean?
Is there fuel in it? How Much?
Is the fuel line from the tank to the pump clear and will fuel flow through it?
If you put your finger over the line that attaches from the pump to the carb can you feel air pressure while cranking the engine?
That metal cap with the single center bolt will come off your fuel pump and there is a fine mesh filter screen underneath. You might check it to see if is clean...
If all else fails you can get a single action fuel pump at most auto stores...it will not have the vacuum portion..it's really a 2a pump. But I think they are less that $50 and they work fine if you don't want to pay for an original style pump.
From the looks of it your current fuel pump is an original...DON'T THROW IT AWAY!!...you ought to be able to get a kit from Walck's to rebuild it....It's probably an AC 9562 but the number will be stamped on the mounting flange.
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So the wiper is not original. Its electronic. I can try to put a tube on the fuel line to the tank and see if I van suck the gas.( will probably end up with some tasty gas. If gas comes I know its the fuel pump...correct?
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Maybe you should first blow through it and see if you hear it bubbling in the tank....
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Maybe you should first blow through it and see if you hear it bubbling in the tank....
Agreed. These old tanks and fuel lines are notorious for developing clogs. Especially if the Willys has been sitting for an extended length of time.
tim
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Alright men, I'll try to get at it tomorrow. Going to look at cars for the old lady, looks like a jeep patriot or nissian rouge here a pic of her car by the way! Very lucky girl. Thanks for all the help
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Holy crap! She must have had a guardian angel.
Tim
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OK air went in the gas tank. So something is up with the fuel pump. Also check out this video.
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YOU NEED TO FIND OUT WHAT IS CAUSING THOSE SPARKS AND ARCING OR YOU WILL HAVE A FIRE...DO NOT TRY TO START IT AGAIN!
You are lucky the fuel pump isn't working or you would surely have a fire or explosion or both....
You need to get someone to help you trace that electrical problem....or take it to a repair shop....
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x2. That was close to being one of the most spectacular videos we all have ever seen. I'm glad it wasn't though.
Sparks and fuel....not so good outside of the engine....
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I didn't see any sparks. I saw mist of gas coming from the bottom of the carb
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I was seeing fuel, arcs and sparks. I'm miffed. Is that a static discharge? What could cause that at the base of the carb?
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I'm about to throw in the towel guys. This sucks. I don't remember seeing any sparks tho. Could it be the mist hitting the sun light? Tempted to turn the lights off and try it again
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I just watched the video again about 20 times on a larger screen. I change my opinion and agree with SSG - I don't think those are sparks. It's fuel blowing out either around the carb gasket or some lower parts of the carb where it shouldn't be, Still not good, but not as close to an explosion as I initially feared.
Edit: Is the carb bolted tightly to the manifold? If so, can you see where the fuel is coming from? I'm wondering if the thing is just completely flooded in that video and the intake manifold is full of fuel. Have you figured out if the timing is set reasonably close?
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[size=12]Maybe the firing order/ timing is causing a plug to fire while an intake valve is open. That would explain the popping sound if there is in fact no sparks flying. I see a reflection from in back of the carburetor as the accelerator is actuated after the engine stops turning.
So have you looked at the position of the rotor when the engine is at Top Dead Center for #1? It should point to the #1 wire. If you have confirmed all this look else where.[/size]
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Is this jeep 6v or 12v? The wire gauge you have on the starter is for 12v. 6v needs a bigger wire.
Can you post a few picture showing the top of the distributor and where the wires run?
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6v and I'm almost certain I screwed up the timing. And yes it was completely flooded. I blew the gas out of the carb with an air compressor. I turned the engine over till I felt pressure and stopped. Then put the number one plug there. The went counter clockwise with the rest of the plugs. The plugs are 1-4 starting st the front. correct? I know its gas shooting out the bottom of the carb. Yes its tight. Need a new gasket?
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I'll send pics of the motor and distributor and also, the motor came with an alternator. I used my old generator because the start is 6v
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[size=12]It will not turn over properly with those battery cables. Walcks sells the right ones for 6v. You need a larger dia wire because the 6v starter will draw more current than a 12v starter.
Is the coil you are using 6v?
You need to be absolutely positive you are finding TDC on the #1 cylinder. Once you have that look at the rotor it should be pointing to the #1 spark plug wire. If you want to get fancy make sure the points are just opening by rotating the distributor. A trick is to leave the distributor clamp bolt just loose enough so that you can turn the distributor but it won�t turn on it�s own. Once you have it running right tighten the clamp bolt.
After you have the #1 wire location on the distributor set, the rest of the wires can be put on one at a time. The distributor turns counter clockwise. The firing order is 1-3-4-2 so the next wire is the #3 cylinder, and so on. The cylinders themselves are numbered 1-2-3-4 starting from the front of the engine.
When you go to start it you will most likely need to turn the distributor a little in order to get it to start. Once it starts slowly rotate the distributor in order to get the engine to run decent. You can get more precision with a timing light afterwards
[/size]
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OK maybe I freaked out.....
I think your valve timing is off and it's blowing back through the carb....
Very early on you mentioned not being able to find the timing dot on the cam gear....but you counted the teeth....
"Also found the dot by counting teeth on pics that show it"
I'm really glad I was wrong!
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Okay, good advice above.
Lets start at the beginning...
To find Top Dead Center... (or very close)
Take out the spark plug in the #1 position.� (First plug toward the front of the Willys).� Put a wrench on the pulley nut. (Large Pulley--lower front of engine) Use your thump to plug the #1 spark plug hole.� Hand turn the engine.� You will eventually feel air pressure against your thumb.� (This is the compression stroke in the #1 cylinder.)� Keep turning until the air pressure stops.
Now, take off your distributor cap.� Using a clock as a diagram, what time is the rotor pointing at?�
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[size=12]
Has it been confirmed that the valve timing is correct, i.e. the timing dots lined up?
Another thought I had. This is a geared engine so once you think you have found TDC you can check the timing marks on the front of the timing cover with the lower pulley. They should be aligned when #1 is at TDC. But be aware they will also be aligned when the #4 cylinder is at TDC. That is why you need to feel the compression.
[/size]
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Those wires seem pretty think and they worked before I blew the motor. I will try the timing again hawk and let you know asap. Pics coming soon
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Pics
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pic
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pic
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pic
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pic
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[size=12]I was looking for a picture that showed the plug wires from the distributor to the plugs. That way we could see if the firing order was right. Your pictures don't show that.
And your right those battery wires do look like big wires. I can't tell by the pictures what size your wires are, I'm just guessing. A 6v system draws twice the current a 12v system does for the same amount of work. If your wires are not properly sized they will heat up and when they do they don't conduct as well and they get even warmer. They work just not very well. Not a good situation when you are trying to start a cranky engine.
Your distributor is not in the "normal" clock position. Normally the clips are at the 3 and 9 o'clock position and the wire terminal is up.
The "normal" clock position for the #1 plug wire is the 5 o'clock position.
[/size]
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I'll give the timing another go tomorrow and try shat you said. dumb question but....TDC stands for?
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Here I go again skipping around... Still don't have the fuel pump working
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Top� Dead� Center....TDC
It means that the #1 piston is at the very top of it's compression stroke.....ignition timing is set 5� before TDC to provide spark as the piston arrives at TDC
And both the intake and exhaust valves are fully closed for the full compression stroke...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvleh-Xt2VU
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[size=12]Why would you dump a bunch to fuel into the engine before the ignition timing was straightened out?
I might add that the timing does not have to be in the �normal� clock position in order to run correctly. It just helps to make sense of everything.[/size]
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[size=12]Firing order at the distributor. And shown in the "normal" position[/size]
(http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o537/CJPilot1/Publiccj3a/20150403_072052_zpsyq5pc52i.jpg)
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[size=12]
I might add that the timing does not have to be in the �normal� clock position in order to run correctly.� It just helps� �to make sense of everything.[/size]
Excellent point. This is why I'm looking for the basics. If we know where his rotor is pointing when the #1 piston is at TDC...(Top Dead Center), we can start to help him time his engine.
SGG, Once we know some of these basics, we'll help you, but we need focus! ;) Timing an engine is a step by step procedure. We are trying to guide you in the steps we have all found to work.
You have the hottest thread going on the 3A Page right now. That's because we all want you to be successful.
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Does this sound like I got the timing guys?
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Like this correct??
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haha Hawk its the hottest because I need the most help! I went into this not knowing much and have come out learning more then I ever thought! glad I didn't sell it when I blew the motor. I have all you to thank. Hopefully I can get her running for the summer!
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[size=12]The firing order looks ok to me. But the distributor is not in the "normal" clock position. You should find out why. Do you have a shop manual you can reference? The CJ3a has timing marks on the flywheel and on the front of the engine. Are you familiar with them?[/size]
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it was in the clock position but then the number 1 plug was at 1 o'clock so I turned the distributor back to have it at 5 o'clock
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[size=12]You are making this all harder that it really is.
* Pull the plugs out
* Hold finger on #1 cylinder plug hole and turn engine by hand until the compression blows your finger from the cylinder
* You should be close to #1 TDC
* Find the timing marks on the front on the engine and rotate the engine by hand a small amount to line the timing marks up.
* You should now be at #1TDC Don't turn the engine until you have set the ignition timing
* Take off the distributor cap. Take a picture of the rotor position and post it.
* The rotor should be pointing to the #1 plug wire.
[/size]
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The timing marks on the gears? And should I set the clips back to 9 and 3 o'clock then do all that
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The timing marks on the gears?
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[size=12]The ignition timing marks are;
A line on the timing cover
� �� �� � and
A notch in the lower pulley
(see Ryan's picture above)
When the engine is making compression in the #1 cylinder (finger blown away from plug hole) and the timing marks are line up the engine is at #1 TDC
Please leave the distributor alone until you find out what you need to do with it.
[/size]
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Ohhh OK good. BUT could I have put that lower pully on wrong by chance?
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[size=12]The lower pulley can only go on one way because it's keyed to the crankshaft.
Once you have found #1TDC you can set the ignition timing.[/size]
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Listen to the Pilot, Sarge!
Step 1: Find...Top Dead Center at cylinder #1!!!
Use the approach we have suggested.
Then, we can move forward.
Tim
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I'm sorry but I don't see any kind of marks on the timing cover. I did make sure to line up the dots on the gears when I put the motor mount plate on. Previous mount plate was bent
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[size=12]OK lucky for you there are timing marks on the flywheel. They are on the passenger side inside of a small hole that has a cover over it. See Ryan�s picture above. I�ll warn you though; they are harder to work with. In any event you HAVE to find #1TDC to get this thing running.
Not finding #1TDC = not running :(
[/size]
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Okay, then you may have the older style engine.
Look at the second photo Ryan has posted. This is showing the timing hole that can be found on the front face of the bell housing on the passenger side of the engine. Down low. It may have a small round cover over it...held on with one screw. Try to find this.
Report back.
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I see the window. Gonna have to call it a night and pick it back up tomorrow if I have time. Thanks for all the help. I'll post again soon
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[size=12]The lower pulley can only go on one way because it's keyed to the crankshaft.
Once you have found #1TDC you can set the ignition timing.[/size]
The key you mentioned is not there! Is this a problem????
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[size=12]
Yes that's a problem as far as using the lower pulley to set the timing and making sure the pulley doesn't slip while running the fan and generator.
It's called a woodruff key it sets the notch on the lower pulley to the proper clock position. If you have the lower pulley off check it for a notch on the OD. If you do find the notch put some white paint on it. If you don't fin a notch post a picture of your lower pulley.
If the timing was set properly the omission of this woodrfuff key would not stop the engine from running. [/size]
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If the engine has the timing hole ...
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/Timing%20hole%20cover_zpsd1e42wsn.jpg) (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/athawk11/media/Timing%20hole%20cover_zpsd1e42wsn.jpg.html)
...and the timing cover and pulley are the same era as the engine, SSG is not going to find any marks or notches on the pulley and timing cover.
This is old school cool timing...but much more difficult in terms of seeing the timing marks. They are on the front of the flywheel...if the flywheel is original to this engine too. And if the flywheel was put on in the correct orientation.
The difficulty is...you need to be a bit of a contortionist to see and line up the timing marks.
You will still need the woodruff key for your pulley, (Available at your local Ace Hardware), and you will still need to find TOP DEAD CENTER of the #1 cylinder.
Tim
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[size=12]Just about everything you didn't want to know about timing is right here; http://oldjeepcarbs.freeforums.net/board/35/timing[/size][/b]
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Picked up the wife's new jeep compass today. Now I need to get a few of sleep hours before the 12 hr night shift but will try to get in the garage tomorrow. cjpilot your only a few hours away. How much to come out and learn me a thing or two? Haha. Hope to report back to you guys tomorrow. Thanks again for all the help!
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[size=12]Lack of timing marks does present a problem.� If you are working by yourself you aren�t going to be able to turn the engine over and check for compression at the same time.� You need something to thread into the spark plug hole and stick a balloon on that.� I used a Harbor freight cylinder leak down adapter.
(http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o537/CJPilot1/Publiccj3a/20150405_105211_zpsheg9n12n.jpg)
Thread it in the #1 Cylinder and crank the engine over.�
(http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o537/CJPilot1/Publiccj3a/20150405_105534_zpsejubx5xm.jpg)
The balloon will fill up on the compression stroke when it deflates stop turning the engine.� The engine should be just past #1 TDC.
(http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o537/CJPilot1/Publiccj3a/20150405_105804_zpsj3pgnuzw.jpg)
This is where my rotor was pointing when I my balloon was inflated the most.� You should be able to confirm #1TDC with the timing marks on the flywheel
(http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o537/CJPilot1/Publiccj3a/20150405_105946_zpsdjboaztk.jpg)
[/size]
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[size=12]Genius[/size][/b]
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Gonna be a few days before i can get some time in the garage. But i think this is getting way past my skills guys.
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what about one of those timing lights?
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[size=12]Click the link. Use Sean's GEICO method to bring the timing in very close. Follow the instruction in the Setting the Timing without a Light segment and VOILA! the motor should be right on time. http://oldjeepcarbs.freeforums.net/board/35/timing[/size][/b]
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Failure is not an option Soldier! ;)
Many folks here...including myself...had zero experience working on cars.� Eventually, this will become second nature to you.
You can do this, but there is an order and process to messing with these things.� You can't start with step 4, then go back to step 1. �
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I second what athawk says. If this forum could guide an imbecile like me through cobbling a Jeep back together we can certainly get you through it. Listen to what people are saying and do it in the order they are telling you to do things. This is a simple process with simple individual steps if done in order. Anything other than that and it's a jumbled overwhelming mess.
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Yes, do things in order as everyone has said..
To get to the end you must start at the beginning.....every story starts with page one....
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OK guys. I took the starter out and cleaned the fly wheel. Found the marks and have it lined up.felt thd pressure on my finger when it lined up. This is where the rotor is at. What now!?!
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Does the notch need to be face straight up?
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Alright! Progress! Put your distributor cap on and put the #1 plug wire in the 5 o'clock location where your rotor is. Then connect plug wires 3-4-2 going counter clockwise. That timing notch on the pulley looks correct (approx 11 o'clock position) but tough to tell if you don't have a mark on the timing cover.
At least now we know your timing is somewhere in the ball park. I'd make sure the carb gasket is good and the carb torqued down and take another crack at starting it. We still have to confirm your points are gapped correctly but you might as well try and crank it over.
Edit: Is that the mark on the timing cover I see? I think it is but tough to tell from the pic. If it is it looks good.
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So to clear things up, the rotor is in the 5 o'clock position now? i will try to fire it up tomorrow and let you know what happens.
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I'm ready to hear that thing crank up
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So to clear things up, the rotor is in the 5 o'clock position now?
It looks like 5 O'clock to me....Good work!
Do you know how to check the point gap?
It should be .020" when the points are open....you need a feeler gauge to check it and a flat blade screwdriver to adjust
This may help...it even looks like a Willys! But i think his distributor is 180� off but the idea is the same...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX0tDVmoEI8
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[size=12]You are now on the right track to getting that thing to run. ;D
If you are in fact at #1TDC then the oil pump gear was installed in the "normal" position. That should help you going forward. [/size]
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Alright! i will try to start it tomorrow and take a video for you guys. We can then move on to the fuel pump no pumping gas and the clutch haha. keep your fingers crossed!
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Now we're cookin!
Tim
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Is this the mark on the timing case? It was on the motor I blew up.
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[size=12]That is the timing mark[/size]
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See how much you're learning? You'll be an old pro before you know it.
For timing the newer style engines, you have a notch on the pulley and a bulge on the timing cover.
Old style engines have a window on the bell housing and marks on the face of the flywheel.
You'll be the guy helping a 3A newb before you know it. :)
And you have an advantage over many of us. You're lucky enough to have both style engines to do comparisons.
Tim
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So hooked everything back up and this is what happened. But the fully charged battery died after this!?
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Alright so this was probably a big no no but I hooked jumpers to the starter from my Harley.....check it out!!!!!
Update- I ran the jumper cables from the battery to the starter and it fired up again. Has to be something with the battery cables right?!
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Nice work! Congratulations for sure!
Check all your cable connections and be sure they are all clean steel-to-clean steel...and make sure the ground strap is in place at the front motor mount.....and steel to steel as before....
Now for the fuel pump..!
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What do you think is up with the pump? Kt worked in the old motor before it blew
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Nice Work!
You have a working engine that is timed well enough to run. And a Carter WO that can deliver fuel.
Now, all other engine troubleshooting just got easier.
Tim
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[size=12]Good news! Why do you think there is a problem with the fuel pump?[/size]
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[size=12]Good news!� Why do you think there is a problem with the fuel pump?[/size]
It wasnt sending gas to the carb. Seems to be working now. I will hopefully hook it back up to the carb tomorrow and see if I can. Keep the engine running.
As far as the starter/battery issue. Is there a ground that needs to go to the starter? Remember that ground on the fire wall I didn't know where it went? Wondering if that is the problem with having to use jumpers
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It would not hurt to hook that ground up again, though it's not original, it's there for a reason.......but since it's hooked to the body the body would then have to be well grounded.....
are there two cables there? A black one and a braided one?
Is the ground strap at the passenger side motor mount hooked up between the front engine plate and the frame? This is the normal way to ground the engine and starter to the frame.
You can just see it under the generator in this picture..
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The ground for the starter is accomplished with the ground strap from the engine to the frame. This ground strap is usually found from the motor mount on the frame, to the front engine plate by the timing cover.
Because I know the critical nature of good grounds, I've added an additional ground cable as a back up. To some up...your battery grounds to the frame. The frame needs to ground to the engine. This completes the circuit to the starter when it's bolted to the engine.
I'll add...these ground points all need to be clean metal to clean metal. Anything less than spotless ground connections and you will have a number of electrical issues.
For example, a portion of the surface between your starter mount and the rear engine plate that it mounts to, must be clean metal to clean metal.
Clean metal to clean metal. Critical, critical, critical.
Some folks think I overstate my position. ;) ;D
Tim
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[size=12]Here is another picture of the engine to frame ground strap.
(http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o537/CJPilot1/Publiccj3a/20150407_190228_zpseizhmov2.jpg)
Here is the negative battery cable.
You see how big a properly sized 6v battery cable is. They measure .450" diameter.[/size]
(http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o537/CJPilot1/Publiccj3a/20150407_190151_zpsywv9tcr4.jpg)
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That must be my problem. there is no ground strap at all. 1955CJ-5 yes there is an original cable behind the black one. Where do you think i should hook it up too? Can i go to any auto store for that other ground?
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for now you could probably take both those grounds off the firewall..they are something that someone added....
and then use one of them as a temporary ground strap at the motor mount...they are a little long...you might tie a knot in it to shorten it and to keep it out of harms way...
A short strap with bolt holes in each end might be hard to find locally...I searched o'reillys and they had nothing...maybe try Napa?
This is what you are looking for...
http://walcks4wd.com/ground-strap-engine.html
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For now i can use that original ground thats on the fire wall doing nothing. ill let you know how that works. I'll also check on the clutch and report back with that problem. What could i have done while installing the engine to make the clutch not work?
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Just noticed oil all over the floor and found this. Where do I hook it up? Its on the driver side. The line to the right runs to the wiper
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[size=12]That gets hooked up to the steel line right next to it. It's the oil pressure gauge line.[/size]
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(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/51%20Willys%20Jeep%20CJ3A%20Rehab/20150320_222444_zps3mqsndan.jpg) (http://s1188.photobucket.com/user/rmurdock2121/media/51%20Willys%20Jeep%20CJ3A%20Rehab/20150320_222444_zps3mqsndan.jpg.html)
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Thanks! She's running!!!! Gotta hook up the radiator now and the motor should be done right?!?
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[size=12]Hey SSG T how about helping me out?
How do you attach the mp4 files to your posts? [/size]
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All the pictures and videos are from my cell phone so they are taken in MP4.
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Alright guys I got the next few days off. What should I do step by step for this clutch? It all appears to be connect correct from the pedal to the arm coming out if the transmission. What could I have done when I took out or installed the motor to screw it up?
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What is the clutch doing or not doing that has you concerned?
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I push it and there is no resistance at all. Just goes right to the floor.
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Ok let's start with the easy-to-get to outside stuff.
Do you have all of these parts?
The most obvious would be the pedal return spring. It's the one that connects to the pedal arm on one end and to a frame bracket on the other end. If it's missing the pedal would have very little resistance.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/1952%20M38%20SN%2056849/clutch_zpskkztljnk.jpg)
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it may seem simple, but is the clutch fork on the pivot and in the throwout bearing housing?
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The return spring is there yes. I believe the clutch fork is good. Nothing is obviously out of place
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Here's a pic of what should be inside the bell housing. This is athawk's pic that he posted when helping me with a similar problem.
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Damn, I'm gonna have to drop the transmission aren't I? Everything apears to look OK.
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Will it shift in and out of gear? Are you sure the clutch cross shaft is facing the right direction? It's easy to get it backwards. Let's kick some more ideas around before you go pulling the transmission.
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Thinking back now. When I pulled the motor I had to pull it pretty hard to separate it from the tranny. Could I have screwed something up doing that?
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Thinking back now. When I pulled the motor I had to pull it pretty hard to separate it from the tranny. Could I have screwed something up doing that?
Possible but unlikely. Way too vague of a question.
Will it shift in and out of gear? Are you sure the clutch cross shaft is facing the right direction? It's easy to get it backwards. Let's kick some more ideas around before you go pulling the transmission.
Stay focused grasshopper! Answer this and we can move on....
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Yes it shifts in and out fine. I didn't touch the clutch at all so I'm assuming its facing the right direction
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you can see some through the inspection cover on the bell housing
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I didn't touch the clutch at all so I'm assuming its facing the right direction
Ryan was talking about the tube that fits between the frame and the transfer case, the rod from the pedal goes on one end, and the cable to the clutch fork on the other...
Is it in place?..I don't have a good picture...
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The cross shaft Ryan and 1955 are referring to is the silver shaft on the right side of this photo (borrowed from the 2A page)�
http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab191/rocketeer_2010/odds%20and%20ends/clutch_2.jpg~original
Did you remove the transfer case and transmission when you removed the engine? When you removed the engine, did you leave the bell housing on the engine�or on the transmission?
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I left it in the transmission. Only removed the engine and didn't touch the transmission or bell housing
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I plan on being in the garage all morning tomorrow. If you guys can give me the step by step check list Barney style that would be great! Thanks guys.
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You mean Barney Fife?
Rule #1
"Obey all rules"
Trace your clutch linkage from the pedal
there is a rod to the cross tube..
Cross tube rotates on two domed bolts ( or ball studs), one on the frame, one on the transfer case..
From the other ear of the cross tube is a clevis and a cable,
it goes to the clutch fork
the clutch fork also pivots on a domed bolt, and has a spring on the opposite side of the carrier for tension...this stuff is inside the bell housing
when you push on the pedal, the fork is pulled to the rear of the transmission, and the "fork" part slides the throw-out bearing carrier forward and dis-engages the clutch..
Take your transmission tower sheet metal cover off, then take the bell housing inspection cover off..
look in there and see what is or isn't happening when you push on the clutch pedal....
Barney says..."Is that perfectly clear?"
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In the army we eplain things to the new soldiers " Barney style" meaning so simple a kid could understand haha. Thanks for the help. I'll get under there tomorrow morning. Have a friend coming over tomorrow night too so he can push the clutch for me. Report back tomorrow
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So I followed the clutch all the way to the fork and it all seems to be working
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Here's a video
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What's the transmission tower sheet .metal cover?
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It's this....
http://walcks4wd.com/transmission-floor-cover-at-stick.html
You will need to remove the rubber boot retaining rings that are around the shift levers, then the rubber boots then the cover...
And then you will see an oval metal cover, remove that and you can see inside..
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???
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First I would put the shift tower/transmission cover back on before something else gets messed up...
Did you swap the clutch and pressure plate from your old blown engine to the new engine?
Or is this the clutch and pressure plate that came with the new engine?
It looks like the pressure plate is bad
Edit: I don't think the clutch plate can be stuck to both the flywheel and the pressure plate...your problem would be different...
anyone else got an idea?
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It came with this engine. What ever its called that pushes the pressure plate is an inch or two short
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That is the throw-out bearing and the thing that slides is the bearing carrier...
Did you change those?
Did they work before with the old engine?
I'll have to look at my old pressure plate...it's just like yours...
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Everything worked on the old engine and no I didn't change anything. Could the cable need to be adjusted to make it push further maybe?
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Also is there supposed to be gear oil in the tower?
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Could the cable need to be adjusted to make it push further maybe?
You could sure try that.....you should have 1 1/2" free play in the clutch pedal before the throw-out bearing comes into contact with the pressure plate....
For some reason it looks like your throw-out bearing is not moving very far...can you post a picture of your pedals, and maybe a picture from underneath showing the cross tube?
The oil in the tower is just what would have splashed up from the gears spinning....so yes, oil there is OK.....
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The rod that connects the ear on the clutch pedal to the ear on the cross-shaft should be 10 1/2" long center to center....
And on my jeep, the CABLE that connects the other ear on the cross-shaft with the clutch fork is 11 1/2" long......yours will be different, this will just give you an idea...
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And here is my old pressure plate...it looks pretty much like yours....
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Friend of mine said the arms on the pressure plate aren't moving so try to tap em and get them moving. Guess I can try that with some wd40 maybe? Yes I'll get you those pics tonight
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they won't move untill the throwout bearing puts pressure on them, you won't be able to mash them in by hand
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He thinks they are stuck in now. If not how do I get the throw out bearing to push further
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if stuck in, the clutch disk should be free, but it could be stuck either the pressure plate or flywheel,
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The pressure plate has some pretty sturdy springs in there. Six of them..
I think it is unlikely that the fingers are stuck "in"...and as dat mentioned, that means the clutch would be free, or released...unless it's stuck to the flywheel or pressure plate surface..which is not uncommon...
It's possible that the clutch disc is on backwards, but can't tell with the video you posted.
Try adjusting the clutch cable from the fork to the cross tube.....
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I'm thinking you're clutch fork pivot pin/fulcrum isn't installed, or is worn down to a nub. The fork could be split at the fulcrum point also. Mine was. Look at my photo that Ryan posted showing the front of the transmission. Right where the fulcrum is. See the split? This didn't allow the fork to throw as far, thus my bearing carrier wasn't pushing the bearing far enough into the fingers on the pressure plate.
Tim
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How would I adjust the clutch cable
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There is a clevis on one end with a jam nut. loosen the jam nut and screw the threaded end of the cable into the clevis to shorten the cable.
Tim might be right...it seems like you aren't getting much movement of the throw-out bearing...
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(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/47c7b595-f344-4ad9-9911-6f5009fdfdb2_zps8xpsaig0.jpg)
If this is broken or missing it will act like your cable is too long also.
Tim
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This sucks. I'm about to drop it off somewhere get it running and put a for sale sign on it
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This sucks. I'm about to drop it off somewhere get it running and put a for sale sign on it
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(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/8acd253d-2244-415c-92c9-13f9571cf35c_zpsjfscnz2f.jpg)
If this area is split, broken, or bent, it will make your cable seem too long also.
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Don't give in. The cable can be adjusted. The cable, fulcrum and fork can all be replaced without removing the engine. It would be a little tricky because of poor access, but it is possible.
Tim
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I can't see into that area without dropping the transmission I also can't get to that cable with a wrench
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Barney says...
One thing at a time...
Tighten the cable....
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I have an adjustable mirror on a stick. Pretty handle in areas like this.
If you pull the small pin out of the clevis, your cable will flop down and allow you get a wrench on it.
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(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/a626aa33c7d5d73709b4747f8f933325_zpscdqv1xle.jpg)
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Its also now spitting oil out of #1 spark plug
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I don't get how it worked fine before I pulled the motor tho as well
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Hawk I tried that and the damn pin broke off and I can get it out
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You can do it....you got it timed and running... That was a major milestone!
Find a small punch or drift or even a nail and push it out......or grab the other end with pliers or side cutters and pull it out.....I know it's tight in there.....
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SSG,
You are pretty rusty down there. Drill it out, then pick up a new pin. You could shoot a little PB Blaster or your favorite penetrating fluid on some of those parts. It will help when trying to break stuff free. This type of stuff happens to all of us. If you get a chance, check out 1955CJ-5s thread in the project section. It's called...To Rusty To Save? Lots of good stuff and many challenges that he works through. It may show you...you're not alone.
We all get frustrated with these things. Sometimes you just need to step back from the grind. Relax a while, and realize...this is suppose to be a fun passtime. Then head back out and tackle each task with conviction.
Tim
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Thanks guys. I'll give it another shot tomorrow or the next day. Got a friend that cab have this thing done and running in hours but he unfortunately lost his house last year to a house fire while his wife was deployed. He's almost done rebuilding and will have time to help. I won't sell her till he goes through it.
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This sucks. I'm about to drop it off somewhere get it running and put a for sale sign on it
don't give up, you're still making progress even if you don't think so, but if you're selling, How cheap ?? ;)
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Haha body is shot on this thing so its going to be a lose either way
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but fun, the body on mine is pretty much junk, but once I get all the pieces put back together, mechanically it'll be a fun ride again, something that I never minded if I bounced off a tree and kept on going. now years down the road if I ever do a body restore, that would change.
cheaper than one of those big razors or ranger and a lot more classy
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Exactly. They are the original side by side!
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Alright guys. There is about 3 inches of play in the clutch pedal before it starts to move the clutch cable. That leads me to believe if I cab adjust it, it should work right???? That pine is impossible to get out. I'm thinking of cutting the thing off and buying a new one. Thoughts?
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http://walcks4wd.com/cable-clutch-release-for-4-cylinder-cj-models.html
That's what I'll need right?
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Which pin won't come out? The cotter pin or the clevis pin?
If you cut off the clevis pin you ought to be able to find a replacement locally at a hardware store....
You might be able to adjust it without removing it....it's made to be adjusted in place.
Back off the jam nut and then turn the hex head on the threaded cable end...
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http://walcks4wd.com/yoke-clevis-clutch-and-emergency-brake-cables.html
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I can't reach any of the adjustment nuts at all
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I know it's tight in there...you should not need a new clevis or cable..just the pin if you cut it off...
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Any idea how to cut it? Sawzall?
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Good news and bad news. I tore off a cob job floor panel and the cable was right there! Bad news is it broken while tighting it
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http://walcks4wd.com/lever-and-tube-clutch-control.html
This appears to have a lot of movement in it. Should I replace it?
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If you can get it out.....it's held between the frame and transfer case.......if you do get it out look at it's condition and also the ball-studs on both ends that it swivels on..........and often the holes in the ears where the clutch rod and the cable connect are worn.
If you order some parts get yourself a Service Manual..it is a big help!
http://walcks4wd.com/repair-manual-1950-64-cj3a-cj3.html
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Well I will stop at Napa and see if they have a cable the same size. I have a mechanics manual I need to look at before posting haha. Do I need to adjust anything else besides the cable? That arm or the clutch pedal?
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That cable is the only adjustment...
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Local auto parts store didn't have anything close. Ordered the parts online and I'll let you guys know how I make out.
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That clutch cable breaking could be a blessing in disguise.� Better now than when you're cruising down the road.� That bad boy is shot!
I would replace the cable and all items in 1955s photo above. Start fresh and clean.
Tim
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That clutch cable breaking could be a blessing in disguise.� Better now than when you're cruising down the road.� That bad boy is shot!
I would replace the cable and all items in 1955s photo above.� Start fresh and clean.�
Tim
No doubt Tim. I almost ran thru the back up my garage wall backing it to tuck the Jeep away for the night. Not because it broke from being old, but a cotter pin went missing thus letting the crosspin to come out and letting the cable go, causing the clutch to immediately engage. Had to get a new cable and shift fork as they went thru the bellhouse blender.
Those are an easy fix my friend, don't let this little stuff get to ya. Just take everything a step at a time. Before you know it, you'll be grin-in ear to ear scooting down the road.
:)
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I remember that story Bretto. That had to have scared the crap right out of ya!!
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SSG,
Bretto is another very talented Willys guy...and quite the seam-ster with OD canvas.
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Ya its probably a good thing it broke now then when I'm out on the trail! I just really hope there's enough cable left to adjust the clutch enough to make it work. Parts shipped today from PA to NY so I should be working on it Wednesday night
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Make sure your new clutch cable is the same length as the old one. There are some longer cables being sold that will not allow enough room for adjustment when the shorter cable is needed.
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You were right Ryan. Its a little longer but its . I pulled on the cable and was able to get it to push the fingers on the pressure plate. How far should the fingers on the pressure plate move for the clutch to work? Is it a noticeable amount or is it just slightly? I'm heading out to see if I can get something shorter for the end. Or do you guys think Im wasting my time and should start to drop the transmission?
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I think you'll see fairly pronounced movement of the clutch fingers but I don't remember for certain. Maybe someone with theirs apart can give you a better estimate.
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Ironically, I have a project that is at a stage where viewing this movement is quite easy...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=LnyHEJPsivk
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Just hand pulling the cable may not allow you to put the required amount of pressure on the fingers to actually move them. The springs are pretty stout. Leg power will most likely be required.
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After watching both videos it seems that SSG T's throwout bearing just is not moving as far as Tim's....
SSGT..can you post a picture of your clutch pedal? Is it the right length?
My pedal is about 5 1/2" from the floor to the base of the foot pad....
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I'm at about 5 3/4
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Athawk that video was perfect
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Alright guys, the MB clutch cable is 2 inches shorter then the CJ. i just got it in the mail and it looks like it should work. Good news is my friend is coming over tomorrow night and said worst case we can have the tranny in and out in one night since i have the spare clutch. Keep your fingers crossed!
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Why are you pulling the tranny? I think I'm reading you were just needed to get the new cable in and possibly a shift fork? While tough, those two things can be done thru the inspection hole and the use of curse words. Now if you are replacing the bearing, it has to come out. If you are pulling it, be SURE to replace the pilot bushing in the flywheel. That's usually a 'change it out cuz your in there' part and its super cheap. And if your pulling it, well, check the seal at the input bearing. And how's those synchros, and #2 gear........etc. ;D J/K (sort of), but I would at least change that pilot bearing if it isn't new already.
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I hope to not have to pull it. That's worst case. But good points if I do need to pull it to replace the clutch
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Any idea what this sound is?!?!?!
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Grinding when it goes in gear bad. Should the throw out bearing spin or not?
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The throw out bearing should only spin when you depress the clutch. When your foot is off the clutch pedal the throw out bearing should not touch the pressure plate and should not spin..see Tim's video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=LnyHEJPsivk&app=desktop
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As for that noise.....I cannot tell you exactly what it is, but I know it is not normal...it could be a bad throw out bearing or pressure plate....
If you decide to replace the clutch it may be easier just to pull the engine as you have had it out recently....
Replace the clutch AND the pressure plate and the pilot bushing...do not do one at a time, and consider having the flywheel surfaced.....mark the flywheel when you take it off so you can get the timing marks where they belong when you put it back together...
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Transmission bolt broke off so it wasn't in place right. Guess what?!?! She's running!!! Even Got her a little muddy! Checked the oil after and its milky so I'm going to replace the head gasket but thank you all so much. Could not have done this with out you guys. I'm sure I'll be back on here in a few days with questions but I'm so happy to have her running again!
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Congrats on your running Jeep! You may want to run it a little more before tackling the head gasket. I've seen milky oil clear up with a short amount of run time after the engine has sat or been worked on extensively.
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Congratulations.
I agree with Ryan. Run it for some miles, change the oil, then run some more. Check for milk.
Tim
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Thanks. I will definitely do that. How many miles you think?
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Tough to say exactly. A couple hours run time and an oil change should show remarkable improvement if that's all it is.
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Just checked the torque on the head. Little loose. Maybe that will help?
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When I say milky I mean really milky! Alot of White. I'm gonna change the oil before I start it again but how concerned should i be? Also one of the studs broke when I was torqueing it down to specs. How bad is that? Yes I used a torque wrench.
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SSG,
The development of moisture inside an engine block is not uncommon. Especially in a region with high humidity.
Moist air is being pulled into the block at all times. This will eventually condensate with changing temperatures. A running engine will displace this build up of moisture eventually, but it can take time.
You may have a problem with the head seal, or a crack in the block, but you generally don't want to start tearing into it until you've exhausted other possibilities.
The broken stud is a problem. That's a real bummer. Opinions may vary, but I would pull the head and replace it before moving forward. Not a fun job.
Tim
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Thanks Tim. The stud isn't broken its just stripped. Its at about 48 with torque wrench. Ordered a stud and head gasket but since its still in semi tight should I make this a priority?
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Well, that's better news.
Do you have good threads up higher on the stud? If so, I might consider adding a couple washers to space the nut up higher on the stud, then torque to the minimum required.
Tim
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Wow good idea! Try it tonight!
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So I replaced the temp gauge and oil and started it her up to see if it worked and that head stud *crap itself out of the hole followed by water....the way it shot out almost made me laugh.....almost
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Haha turned sh** into excrement..... Anyways should I replace the head gasket and stud?/or can I get away with just the stud
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Ouch.
Hopefully the stud is the only thing that is damaged and stripped.
If the new stud doesn't seat tightly, you might have to pull the head and repair the deck surface with a threaded insert. (Available everywhere)
So, get a new stud and head seal. Drain a portion of the radiator fluid from the block. Clean the deck and head while open. Inspect them for cracks. Fix bad stud threads in deck if needed. Install new stud, and new head seal. Torque the head in the recommended order. Fire it up.
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Its the threads not the stud. Friend is coming over Tuesday hopefully to fix it. Then hopefully shell be done
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Anyone know the size and pitch for the hellicoil?
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Trying to find the stud pitch but can't find it online anywhere. Not gonna have time to get somewhere to measure it before he comes and he's picking up what he needs on the way. Any of you guys know the pitch!!??!!
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I believe it's 7/16" x 14.
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Thank you brother!
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Alright guys got it fixed! New stud and head gasket seems to have worked. Need a new fuel pump because its spitting out fuel. Also the Generator isn't working. My friends dad says I can get a 1 wire GM alternator, 12 volt coil, new bulbs and I can have it switched over to 12v with out buying the expensive conversion kit. Any truth behind that? As always thanks for the help boys!
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Hey guys,
Ended up ordering a 12v convention kit but I think my timing is still a little off. You can here it miss firing from the exhaust. What should I do?
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Do you have a timing light to help dial in the timing? How about a dwell meter or at least a feeler gauge to make sure the points are adjusted correctly prior to setting the timing?
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Nope unfortunately. Some one said I can loosen up the distributor and listen?
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A timing light is the best, but a old rule of thumb for on the road fixes, is loosen the clamp on the distributor and rotate it in the direction of increased idle. That's advancing. Rotate it for the fastest idle without faultering. Then retard the timing 100 RPM's and you will be close. If it sputters, try adjusting the carb mixture screw to smooth the idle out to the best. If that doesn't work, you may need to do a valve adjustment. One or more may be tight, or not enough clearance. John
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Leaker,
What are your doing over here...slummin it? ;D
Sarge, the Leaker speaks the truth, but I'll be honest, I don't have a timing light either.
The entry from the 2A Page, done by Sean is excellent. It's called the Geico Methoud. (you know...It's so easy, even a cave man can do it.)
I rely solely on this approach. You may find it very helpful...
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/l134-ignition-timing_topic13819.html
Tim
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A regular test light can be used to set the timing too. Connect the test light between ground and the distributor side of the coil (-). Use Sean's "Geico" method of setting the crankshaft at 5 degress BTDC and then with the key on turn the distributor as described. When the test light lights up the points have just opened and you can tighten down the adjustment bolt.
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I came over here to see what "Hawky" was doing. I have a 3A too you know. I don't descriminate when it comes to Jeeps---LOL. 8-) Oilly
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I came over here to see what "Hawky" was doing. I have a 3A too you know. I don't descriminate when it comes to Jeeps---LOL.� 8-) Oilly
I know you have a whole barn full of stuff. (I'm looking forward to seeing it.) I just haven't seen you poke in over here for a while. I know what it is...You're needing a Willys "fix"...and it's pretty quiet out there in the forum world right now. :D
Tim
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You think one of those cheapo $35 harbor fraight one will work? She's running good you can just hear the miss fire slightly. Also, the distributor hits that little screw or w.e it is when turning it counter clock wise. What suggestions do you guys have for that? That one wire alternator didn't come with the wire for the 12v convertion. What size does it have to be? Thanks a lot guys.
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I came over here to see what "Hawky" was doing. I have a 3A too you know. I don't descriminate when it comes to Jeeps---LOL.� 8-) Oilly
We'll just say Oily is a Equal Opportunity Jeeper!
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You think one of those cheapo $35 harbor fraight one will work? She's running good you can just hear the miss fire slightly. Also, the distributor hits that little screw or w.e it is when turning it counter clock wise. What suggestions do you guys have for that? That one wire alternator didn't come with the wire for the 12v convertion. What size does it have to be? Thanks a lot guys.
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Alright guys I'm back for some advice. Got her converted to 12v and she's running good. Timing is still a little off but i got a friend with a a timing light. New problem is I noticed she was leaning low on the passenger side. Sure enough had a broken leaf spring. Just got two new springs and 4 new shocks. My question is should I be changing my front springs too? They aren't broken but is the rear going to be high then the front? Thanks