My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: 1955CJ-5 on September 11, 2014, 04:01:23 PM
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I'm not sure if the whine in my transmission/transfer case is the intermediate shaft, but I looked at the Intermediate gear and I'm pretty sure it is a repro as there are no numbers stamped on it at all....
So I found a NOS intermediate gear.
So who's intermediate shaft kit should I use?
I've not seen a "NOS" kit anywhere. Most are in the $40-$50 range, a couple in the $75 range, and Novak's is $139!! But, I'm thinking that you get what you pay for in these items...
So, what is your experience with the intermediate shaft kits?
I replaced the intermediate shaft(but not the gear) 700 miles ago, but I figure that if the repro gear is a poor fit then the shaft will need to be replaced again.
This is the only gear/shaft that can be replaced without pulling the t/c or transmission(I hope)......If it turns out that that this doesn't quiet things down and I still have to pull them it's no loss as I would change these out at that future time anyway...
Thanks,
Randy
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I have no experience either way Randy, but the Novak folks claim that their intermediate shafts are "specially hardened".
I believe all intermediate shafts are hardened steel, but I'm not sure what makes Novak's "Special". ;)
Tim
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Maybe the extra $50 or $60??
But they also have an "O" ring in each end to help prevent leaks....But I'm thinking that may complicate the install..Mine doesn't leak at the moment... :)
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I used Novaks in my jeep. Haven't driven it yet. Was quite pleased with it. I know plenty of people that have used it and are happy with it.
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Thanks Nate,
I also found a thread over at the earlycj5 site and every response was in favor of the Novak parts...
So I ordered the shaft kit from them...
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OK I put it in. The two toughest parts were getting the e-brake drum and yoke off (I really need a better puller) and driving the old shaft out. I used a large hammer and some 5/16 steel rod to get it started, and then a brass drift to finish it.
The new shaft went in well. The "O" rings add a little challenge and they get partially shaved because of the tight fit...I haven't filled it with oil yet so I hope they sealed....I did give the ends a dose of Permatex.
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So the million dollar question - did it eliminate the noise you were chasing? Or are we still waiting for the Permatex to set up?
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The $2 answer....the noise is different, but it is not gone....so whatever it is it's related to the inter gear.....maybe the output gear? All that stuff looked good and rolled smooth...but, I did not change the bushing between the front output shaft and the rear way back when.......
For now I'm going to drive it and see what develops....I've only gone about 10 miles so far
Do you suppose there is a "break-in" period for new gears?
And, this new gear is a military spec gear..do you suppose they are different from civilian? Maybe I shoulda spent the extra $20 and got a gear from Novak....
Will I ever learn?
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I took my wife for a short drive in the jeep..
She said, "Change it back!"
I bet I can do it in half the time now....
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Randy,
I installed a new 1-1/8" Novak intermediate shaft this past weekend. Everything went as well as could be expected. My O-rings got shaved off too. Not entirely sure how to avoid that.
My Question... In the kit, there was a large washer/spacer with two stubs on the inside diameter. Where? What? Why? Also, a new snap ring.
Would these be for some other application? Or, am I missing something? These parts were not on the old intermediate shaft. Extra parts tend to make me nervous.
Tim
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Mine had the same extra parts.....and I think the one from Herm had them too....they look like the snap ring off the transfer case output shaft and the output shaft thrust washer.....it seems to me Ryan went through this as well...
Why they are in with the intermediate shaft is a mystery....I called Novak and asked and was met with silence on the other end of the phone...so they don't know why they are in there either...
Did you change the shaft with the transfer case still mounted in the jeep?
I've read that you can chamfer the edges of the hole the shaft slips through to help minimize the "O" ring damage....
I don't want to freak you out but what bothered me was that when I took it apart again part of that front "O" ring was wound up in the roller bearing cage....so make sure the intermediate gear turns freely.....
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I did indeed go through a similar experience:
http://www.cj3apage.com/cgi-bin/3Ayabb26/YaBB.pl?num=1389664489/4
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I knew one of you guys had posted about this thing. I just didn't have much time to search for it today. (while at work)
I'm a little more at ease about this, but it sounds like everyone is throwing in extra stuff that isn't needed. Walck's...Herm...Novak...
Hmmm. Makes me wonder if the High Tech "Novak" shaft is anything special.
Tim
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I'm trying to decide the same thing, is novaks any better or get one from walcks, is it really any better
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I wonder if those parts just come with the needed thrust bearings and cage bearings as sort of a "small parts" kit, and then the shaft is added...or included depending on the source.
i thought that if i ever took the TC out and rebuilt it on the bench I would try the Novak shaft again....but for me trying to get the "O" rings installed while on my back under the jeep was too frustrating with questionable results...
I put the old shaft that came with the kit that Herm sells back in...no leaks and so far so good....
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The Novak shaft does look different than the other available shafts. It has a nub on the lock plate end. It was packaged separately from the bearing, O-rings, thrust washers, etc..., so you may be right on "small kit" theory.
I'm expecting some improvement from this swap out. Here are side by side photos of the new and old bearings and thrust washers...
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/a8cb607e2055727046458aaa0cee30aa_zps9gzelral.jpg)
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/acdc6d02bf27308c916cb8663c40bf3c_zpsobbncjzy.jpg)
Here is a shot of the intermediate gear and the markings. This looks to be an original...
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/a7a28f6bf4d1ffab5dde6ac1a0e44a93_zpsgy6l4f1x.jpg)
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I bet you got a little noise out of those bearings!
My inter gear was marked just like that...18-5-7 ...but mine had an 1150 stamped instead of 1151....you you suppose that is the month and date of manufacture?
I'm sure the Novak is a better shaft..at least it appears to be and I like the "O" ring design...if I could just get them installed in one piece!
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You're probably right on those markings. That would suggest that mine is not the original intermediate shaft, but may be an original replacement. My Willys is a 1949.
It would suggest they were both made in November. Coincidence?
Also, my stamping orientation is opposite from yours. Spin mine around so the bore is at the bottom, and mine stamping would be upside down.
Tim
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I don't know...could be a shift number or something...mine also had a small maltese cross stamped on it....
Of the three or four intermediate gears that I've seen only your's and mine have the 1150/1151 number....the others only had the 18-5-7 and one had nothing at all....
Locations of the stampings seem a little random....another mystery....