My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: athawk11 on February 22, 2014, 08:34:46 AM
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I've read that copper core spark plug cables are a must have with a Willys Jeep.�
I have a 12v Willys with carbon fiber spark plug cables.� I've never had any starting, or running issues.� The cables seem to deliver all the spark needed.
Does the 12v conversion reduce the need for the copper core cables, thus allowing the carbon cables to work?
Would copper core be a must have if my Willys was still 6v?
Or does the voltage even matter?
Again, I have no...zero...zilch...nada single problem with the carbon cables.
Tim
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If you had a marginal spark, then the copper core wires would transmit that spark better to the plugs without any loss...It seems you have plenty of reserve battery to run the coil, and you aren't going to see the low cranking voltages of a 6 volt system in poor shape. I wouldn't change a thing, your neighbors still listening to AM radio will thank you.
I've replaced lots of wires on old tractors and jeeps and usually all the local parts stores have in stock is a carbon core set. Copper core sets are hard to find unless you mail order or special order in anyhow. So most jeeps eventually end up with carbon core wires.
By the way.....if it takes as an example, 10KV to make a spark jump the gap at your spark plug, guess what the spark voltage will be with super duper wires, an incredible coil, and the latest, greatest, superzapper distributor, painted screaming yellow with chrome trim?
Yup, still 10K volts. You won't get any hotter a spark under the same conditions. (This is simplifying it a little, admittedly. ) Where all the HI Perf stuff shines is in unusual conditions, like wide open throttle with high compression, etc. Your low budget system may not be able to make the spark jump the gaps reliably under the more extreme pressures, etc. But, unless you have a Supersonic head shaved to the minimum, pop up pistons, and are running avgas, while towing houses around, you won't need all that. :P
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Thanks Bill. 8-)
That is reasuring. Walcks has a set of copper core cables for $25.00, which seems like a reasonable price, but they don't have rubber insulators on the spark plug side. I prefer some rubber there.
Funny you mention the radio interference. That is talked abut a lot while searching the web for copper core cables. :)
Tim
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Here it comes, my opinion, LOL. Tim, I much prefer the copper wires, I keep a set of NAPA wires on the shelf in the garage, I think your success with the carbon fiber are a result of your environment, being you are in a very dry climate. Here in MN we tend to have humid summers and a carbon wire will absorb the moisture after time, on an HEI system it will have enough "Nuts" to overcome this, a non HEI does not have this ability and will result in weak spark at the plug.
To answer your questions, "no" be it 6/12 volt makes no difference, on most automotive ignition systems that are 12V non HEI there is either an internally ballasted coil or a ballast resistor installed in the + lead between the switch and the coil, that reduces the input to the coil to 6 volts anyway.
If I disrupt someones radio, well too bad ;D, I have no close neighbors, and when on the road it will only be instantaneous anyway, Do as you wish ;)
MHO, Lee ;)
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Lee, my opinion might have been slightly affected by the fact that we have had less rain all year than you guys have in every snowstorm......Not that it is dry in TX.....
I bow to the voice of experience.. for best results, use copper. :-[
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Lee, my opinion might have been slightly affected by the fact that we have had less rain all year than you guys have in every snowstorm......Not that it is dry in TX.....
I bow to the voice of experience.. for best results, use copper.� :-[
Bill, you need not bow to anything, LOL ;D, different things work in different places, I would stand on my claimes to the copper wires, in the long term, anywhere. I will add a little money saving tip for buying wires, copper or fiber, buy a set for a small block V8 and you get two sets for the Go-Devil for a few bucks more than the four cyl. set ;)
Lee ;)
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I have had three experiences with carbon-core wires on 6 volt system vehicles -
First was a '51 Ford coupe, V8, that I bought cheap because the PO couldn't get it to run right. After some fiddling, on the advice of my Dad, I replaced the new carbon wires with solid-core, and problem solved.
Second was my '47 IH model M. I gave it a complete tune-up and it ran worse than before. As a last, desperate resort, I put the old wires back on, and problem solved. I took the new wires back to the FLAPS, and the gray-hair behind the counter said, "I sold you resistor wires?! That won't work!"
Third was my neighbor up the street with a '50 Chevy sedan. He didn't want to believe that his new static suppression wires were not good. I talked him into letting me loan him 7 old wires from a flathead Ford, and problem solved.
I'm not saying it's true all the time, but I know that I won't use anything but solid-core wires on any 6-volt system. BW
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Gotta love the gray haires, our future without them is not good, LOL
Lee ;)
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The only reason for carbon plug wires is static suppression in your radio. The Jeeps didn't have a radio and few if any do now for good reason. We're having to much fun in our Jeeps to want to listen to a radio.
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I too, have had problems in the past with carbon. I will always search out copper and recommend same to my friends and clients. The military had problems with static suppression in its radio jeeps, so wire end suppressor attachments were developed as well as a couple of other separate anti-static devices.
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The military vehicles used shielded cables for the spark plug wires with screw fittings on each end.
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Gentlemen, The carbon wires worked well years ago ('50s) but didn't allow mishandling which happened all the time . That increased gaps within the wires. I've dealt w/ ignition analysis and combustion for over 60 yrs. Daytona championships, etc., plus Gov't consultant on air quality. Carbon wires become undependable in service. Suppression is very beneficial to good combustion, better fuel mileage,cleaner oil, more power and lower emissions. This is a fact. A non supressed ignition duration is prox 1/2 milisecond, suppressed can be 2 full ms. A lot more fuel starts burning and there is much more complete burn. This is all easily read on analysis eqpt.Nowadays there are wires w/suppression that aren't made w/ carbon. I will not build any eng w/o supressed ignition. Don't group all supression wires as being called "carbon". David
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Ok David, where can you get them, what do I ask for?
I believe you but do not know where to go from here.
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Johnny,
I always make my own wire sets (we used to call them harnesses). It's not hard to do. Today you can't walk into most these so-called auto parts stores and get anything for a 3A, let alone a 12 cyl Packard, Pierce Arrow, Locomobile,etc engines all sitting in shop right now. Will get some #s tomorrow. Past my sack time. Arise 3:30 AM. David
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The military vehicles used shielded cables for the spark plug wires with screw fittings on each end.
In WWII? M38, yes. MB, GPW,GPA? Don't think so.
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Ok David, where can you get them, what do I ask for?
I believe you but do not know where to go from here.
The description indicates that these are copper core...
http://walcks4wd.com/spark-plug-wire-set-l-head-4-c.html
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Johnny B,
Napa probably has belden or Echlin. I assume your running a flat 134 or F head134. Either eng is low tech and will run fine and dependable w/ solid core wires. Any benefit obtained using resistance would be unnoticeable. Solid wires will take more abuse by people unfamiliar w/ proper wire handling. Google Aurora Electronics, click products, then ignition wires. a small tutorial. They do list a set for '55 CJ3B. No doubt pricey and the rest of your ignition system should be in good shape to match. Spiral w/ ferrite is high quality. Google Taylor Spiro-Pro for more info. David
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Thanks David, I was thinking you had some special wires other than what I could get at Auto Parts store. Although, I am looking to find the best carbon wire I can get.