My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: SteveW on October 02, 2013, 07:50:43 PM
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My current oil pan leaks around the flange from being overtightened through the years. It has the welded plate on it. I got another pan that is in better shape and it must have come off of something Willys made other than a jeep as it doesn't have a plate. I can make and weld one but also am thinking about making the plate and just bolting it to the pan with ny lock nuts and washers.What do you think? was there any other type of skid plate that protected the oil pan on the jeeps?
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Not sure bolting it to the pan is a good idea, too much of a chance for a leak, or a stress crack around the hole . If you hit something all of the pressure of the impact will have to be absorbed by the very small bearing surface of the pan. Were it me, I would find out how the plate is attached to the old pan, remove it and transfer it to the new pan. If you have it welded on you can reinforce the welded area on the inside and spread any impact stress out over a much greater surface, should be able to make it better than new. Just IMHO.
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DON'T DO IT. You probably found a 2 whl drive pan that is not meant for off road.
You can reform the bolt holes flatness so the pan will seal again. You need a small ball peen hammer that will fit between the pan and flange and a heavy flat plate the lay the pan on.
Or, find a correct pan.
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I have tried the repair you mentioned and it is just too weak where the bolts go. Is the pan made of a thinner material itself for 2 wheel drive regardless of the plate? I have discarded the nut and bolt idea.
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Steve,
I've used this method with complete success. No hammer involved.
http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Engine/Rebuild7.html
I'll add that I was surprised how easy it was. I modified the washers on the back side by cutting flat spots on either side to ensure no pressure was exerted on the flange.
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Steve, the problem with that is if the pan is deformed at areas other than the bolt holes it requires a larger flat surface to lay it on so as to twist and form the pan or cover into a flat part to use.
While using washer's as you describe you only straighten localized areas, not the whole surface and when you bolt the pan on any twist will cause a loose area at other spots that may leak over time. If you use a thick paper pan gasket it may work but a cork gasket is very sensitive to twist in the pan or deformed bolt holes and also, OVER TORQUING the pan bolts.
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I will look at the problem more closely. I did check the whole pan with some good straight edges and the bolt holes were the problem. I did use the original bolts and also used a torque wrench which I doubt happens much. That is a nice link Rus.
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Pulled the pan today and will try the method of the nut/bolt/washer. The area of the leak is where the front plate of timing cover and the block is. On the site Rus posted it is where the blue sealant is run on the pic. I am a little confused with the portion on that guide that says to put flat washers in as spacers to keep pan fitting properly. I can't picture this in my head. Good news is no leak at rear of pan and no pieces of metal or debris in the bottom of pan. Also looked at how the skid plate is attached and there are 3 rows of spot welds with 3 welds in each row. My pan without the plate is exactly same thickness and construction as the one with plate. I would not hesitate to use it with a plate welded on if nothing was available.
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Hi Steve.
I think they are talking about the 6 spacers used between the oil pan flange and the pulley shield.� The shield and oil pan share the same mounting bolts in this area.� If you don't have a pulley shield, then you wouldn't need the spacers.�
The spacers look like washers, but are thick. They fill the gap between the shield and pan that is created by the outer most lip on the oil pan flange.�
Hope this helps.�
Tim
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I only have what is shown on the picture in the guide. Looked through the service manual and didn't see any mention of a pulley shield either so I won't keep looking for a ghost. I am curious about what an opinion is regarding gasket sealant. The service manual says to put the sealant on the pan, then place the gasket on pan and install. The part Rus posted says to put sealant on both sided of gasket. I put last gasket on per service manual.
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You might be chasing a ghost, but the article is referring to the spacers between the pulley guard/shield and the oil pan.� You clearly don't have one, so just disregard that part of the article.� If you want to know what they are talking about, check here...
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/spacers-crankshaft-pulley-guard_topic21136.html
Also, here is a photo showing the shield installed.� You can see it just below the crank pulley on my rolling chassis...
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/20110725016_zps35e78353.jpg)
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Well that pic solves the mystery.
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You don't need it. I removed mine when I rebuilt my engine and have driven it on extreme trails and conditions over foliage, trees, Sage Brush, rocks, boulders and all other forms of vegetation and rocks you could possibly find and nothing happened.
You will probably never drive yours on anything but pavement to get a milkshake a DQ or MacDonalds so don't fret it.
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I am in flat Florida so most of what you mentioned isn't even possible for me. I am cleaning the surface of the pan now and I have a granite sink cut out I use to put my diamond stones on to sharpen chisels and plane blades so I can check it for flatness and warping to a dead certain outcome. My old gasket was cork and my new gasket is not so that will be another thing to keep an eye on. It looks like there should be a gasket on the drain plug but I don't have one or the question begs to ask should there be one?
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Yes the drain plug should have a copper crush washer...but most of the replacements available are nylon or something similar. You ought to be able to find one at an auto parts store.
And SteveW, thanks for starting this thread. I learned from it that there should be spacers between the pan and pulley guard. Mine were missing and the pan gasket was seeping in that area..hopefully the spacers will help it to seal...
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Well going to let this play out.I straightened the holes with the nuts/washer/bolt as per the guide. I checked with a level as a straight edge and also laid it down on the granite top. No rocking on corners. I took a couple strips of copy paper and put it under various places starting with 1 thickness and if it went 2 thicknesses and then 3 thicknesses. I couldn't get any more than 3 under any place so am pretty happy. I did find a fiber type washer at Ace in the plumbing section that should work and I have also got the other pan out for a source to check and did find the copper crush washer still on the plug. Going to play with it a bit more before I reinstall it.
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You don't have to get too anal about it. As long as it is not rocking and the bolt hole areas are flat to the surface it should seal with the cork gasket. I use a light film of RTV sealant on both sides of the cork gasket and gently tighten the bolts so they are snug but don't squeeze the gasket out. When the sealant dries it shouldn't leak and you can snug it up some if it does but DON'T over tighten it.
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I'm not just accumulating a little information so if it goes away then lessons learned. My new gasket is not cork but a made in the USA Felpro so that will be another thing to throw in the hopper.
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I'd use the Felpro for sure...and install it with sealer as if it were cork....I like Permatex 2A but there are a number of other options.
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Steve,
Excellent choice. The Felpro gasket is, far and away, superior to the cork gasket.
Tim
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I know you are not planning to add the pulley guard, but I just wanted to mention that adding the spacers has stopped my oil seep...I used 5/16 jam nuts, ground to about .155 thickness, and drilled to slip over the pan bolts.
I'm using a Felpro gasket and it's dry all around now...
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No I am not but this will help someone else down the road. I had used a Permatex super 300 on the last gasket and was pretty happy with coverage when I took pan off. I have some #2 and #2b sealer.