My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: 3aJeeper on May 02, 2013, 05:09:43 PM
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I'm getting close to a 'running chassis' and looking for an easy way to wire up the oil pressure, and temp gauges. Right now I have no wiring. When I got the engine first running, it was with bare minimum wiring - excluding all gauges.
I now want to be able to run the engine and determine A) which gauges/sending units actually work and B) how the engine is running (oil pressure, temp).
Was the 3a originally 6v or 12v? When I got it, none of the gauges were wired, and the PO was using 12v battery. Do I need at least a regulator in between the gauges and the battery?
thanks
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Originally 6 volt, and the oil gage was mechanical with an oil line to it, the temp gage was a bourdon tube style sender in the head , also a mechanical type gage, and the ammeter was an ammeter.
Best bet for a rolling chassis is to use original gages in a homemade gage panel bolted somewhere... You can even test out your speedometer if desired.
If you are going to use electrically operated gages just match voltage with your battery. Are you running a 12 volt alternator setup? or a 6 V generator?
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Thanks, but i'm dumber than a stump.
The engine is the F134, not an L head....so that tidbit of info just might be important....
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I'm pretty sure the F head still used mechanical gages. Maybe we need some pics of the gages you are trying to use...
What do you have for a charging system?? What does the tag on the generator say, if you have a generator...
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JB,
What Bill said. Pictures will help us get you going. To test your ammeter, you will have to hook up the regulator...unless you are running an alternator.
Tim
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Early F head motors in CJ3Bs used the same gauges as the L134. Later on (about 1958) they went to the single combination gauge. Here's a link to the CJ3b "tech tips" page which has alot of usefull info on F head motors.
http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Tech.html
Be carefull with the tube to the temp gauge, it's kinda fragile.
Matt
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Thanks guys - I'll work on pics. Right now there is nothing. The body is off and all the gauges are still in the dash. I believe it's an early F head ('54).
Yea, I figured I'd just jerry-rig some kinda mounting for them.
Charging system is a 65amp alternator, but don't have regulator. I was just looking to get the engine running and test the oil pressure and temperature gauges to get some feedback on the engine and cooling system. I'm not looking to wire the whole thing together just yet. Lots t do before I get to that stage.
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I'd just use a set of replacement mechanical gages with 12 volt bulbs in them for lighting if you are going to use lit gages. A 12 Volt voltmeter wired in would be pretty simple too. An ammeter is less useful in my opinion for an alternator equipped jeep. The 3A dash holes are a pretty standard size, and gages should be easy to find. You won't need any regulator to run the gages.
Eventually you will need to figure out how to wire up your alternator and other accessories. You will need to get a matching regulator if it isn't internally regulated. I'd recommend picking up a basic automotive wiring book somewhere.
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Here's a picture of How the Temp. sending unit mounts in a 54 F head.
(http://i52.tinypic.com/4tnjom.jpg)
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I wouldn't bother with hooking up the alternator. You can run a 4 cyl a long time on a good charged battery.
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Good ideas F Bill.
Here's what I have: I think this is the oil pressure sending unit. Not sure if I can or how to use this piece. I've seen replacement units, but not sure how to connect the sending unit to the gauge.
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/carneyjb/IMG-20130502-00054_zpsca33df49.jpg)
This is the temp sending unit (I think). I tried to use a replacement unit (for the Fhead) but the temperature sending unit did not fit in the threaded hole. It was too big. Is this the right spot?
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/carneyjb/IMG-20130502-00055_zps44f1fa9a.jpg)
Lastly, here are the gauges in the dash. The chunks in the oil gauge I think are what's left of a gasket maybe? The Temp unit is in a box somewhere....
You can see how I couldn't pass up buying this jeep...it's got less than 3500 miles on it!! :D ;D
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/carneyjb/IMG-20130502-00057_zps5b2fa161.jpg)
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Ditch the electric temp and oil pressure stuff. The mechanical is better for these old rigs.
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Matto - looks like you and I were posting at the same time. Your pic is spot on to what I have. On my replacement gauge however, the nut is larger than the threaded hole. Maybe they sent me the wrong one?? I was careful to order one for the F Head...
In this pic the red arrow is pointing to a brass part where the old sending unit screws in. Is this suppose to be removed? This is what is blocking the replacement unit. It won't thread into that brass(??) part, but looks to be the same size. I does not come out when I remove the other piece. Is this suppose to come out too?
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/carneyjb/tempgauge_zpse5643c8d.jpg)
GG - agreed, I would like to use mechanical gauges if possible.
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I thought it looked like you had a brass bushing in there..
Probably will need to drive an ezy out into it to remove it... or a large hex bit or even a larger torx bit if you have one might work. It will be damaged and not reusable.
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Ditch the electric temp and oil pressure stuff. The mechanical is better for these old rigs.
Agreed. I have a mechanical temp gauge (and thx to F ZBill - a solution), but unable to find mechanical oil pressure. Is there such a thing? Do you have a line on where to get one? Less electrical wiring = better for me. �;)
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I think F Bills right in that someone put a bushing in the head to adapt an electric sending unit. once you remove that bushing, you will need to install one of these bushings to accept the temp probe.
http://walcks4wd.com/temperature-gauge-bushing-at-h.html
The mechanical oil pressure gage does not require a sending unit. Here's a link to a replacement gauge at Walcks.http://walcks4wd.com/oil-gauge-late-cj2a-cj3a-cj3b.html
This runs from the gauge thru the firewall.http://walcks4wd.com/oil-gauge-hard-line-mb-gpw-cj2.html
This runs fromte hardline to the block. http://walcks4wd.com/oil-flex-line-gauge.html
Matt
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� The mechanical oil pressure gauge does not require a sending unit. Here's a link to a replacement gauge at Walcks.http://walcks4wd.com/oil-gauge-late-cj2a-cj3a-cj3b.html
This runs from the gauge thru the firewall.http://walcks4wd.com/oil-gauge-hard-line-mb-gpw-cj2.html
This runs fromte hardline to the block. http://walcks4wd.com/oil-flex-line-gauge.html
Matt
Thanks Matto!
Even I can unscrew the existing oil pressure sending unit and replace with the flex hose at the block. That's the kinda fix I like! ;)
I'll take a look at the bushings too. The temp gauge setup I have has a nut that looks to be the same size as the bushing that's in the engine now. I bet if I take that out, what I got will fit right in.
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JB this is my running chassis using this wire diagram. Easy basic setup that is giving me all the info I need.
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m606/bmic/WillysWiring3_zpsd8f4cb68.jpg) (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/bmic/media/WillysWiring3_zpsd8f4cb68.jpg.html)
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m606/bmic/FIRSTSTART027_zpsd60b5d49.jpg) (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/bmic/media/FIRSTSTART027_zpsd60b5d49.jpg.html)
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I thought it looked like you had a brass bushing in there..
Probably will need to drive an ezy out into it to remove it... or a large hex bit or even a larger torx bit if you have one might work. It will be damaged and not reusable.
Finally got an ez out (and some time) to back this bushing out. However, it's not coming easily. Just wondering just how hard do I torque on it? I know that's subjective, but am I in danger of doing something really bad like cracking the block? Although I bet the brass gives long before the block....
Not intending to use anything more than hand power, but if using the air gun is deemed safe, then I'm all in.
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if you cannot get it to turn, take a grinder to the exposed surface of it and sand it down level with the block in two spots, to weaken it. This will also prove to you that it is a separate part...(wire brushing would do the same thing if there is any question of it being a bushing and not just a smaller hole in the head than normal ) Then take a dull chisel and hit it inward to collapse it on itself . You may need to chase the threads in the head with a tap when you are done, or you might get lucky and just need to use a wire brush on them.
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F Bill
Thanks - I'll do that if it won't budge.
Do I need to be cautious about leaving any shavings inside the block? I really don't want to have to take the head off if I can avoid it.� :-/
Maybe plug it with a cloth or something? Maybe flushing it out real good?
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An old school trick I have used in the past to keep shaving out of places is to use............Shaving cream. Make sure you get the foam shaving cream and not the gel stuff. Fill the hole up with shaving cream, get your bushing out, tap the threads, ream out the hole or whatever you need to do and then wipe out the shaving cream and metal bits it catches.
If the foam stats to collapse before you are done with the work, just wipe it out and spray more foam in.
Just a tip I picked up from an old engine builder a looong time ago. I really didn't believe it until I tried it, but it works. He used it a lot when he would replace a gasket on a V-8 and didn't want the gasket material to drop into the intake, block or cylinder (depending on which gasket he was replacing). :)
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Shaving cream.....that's....just....awesome.
Talk about thinking out of the box....