My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: PaulS on April 23, 2013, 09:55:50 AM
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I found the thread with all the pictures of how people pulled their tubs off. I bought a little shop crane / engine hoist, which I hope will provide the needed muscle for that part. Already got used in removing the winch and its mount--I did that by hand once and the crane made it a heck of lot easier!
What I'm wondering, though, is if there's a diagram somewhere that shows where all the bolts holding it down are. Or is it a process of remove the ones you can see and then try to figure out where it's still being held down?
The "Body" section in the shop manual doesn't seem to anticipate that you'd want to pull the whole thing!
Thanks,
-Paul
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There are 14 bolts holding the tub to the frame.. From front to rear:
One on each side near the toe board gussets, they thread into the frame.
One on each side in the driver and passenger floor.
One under the fuel tank, and one inside the tool box.
One on each side holding the bed riser to the frame..you can see them through the rear wheel well just in front and inboard of the tire.
One on each side in the bed, these are supposed to be step bolts...like carriage bolts with a larger head.
Four bolts across the rear cross member and valance/brakelight panels. One on each side easily visible from the wheelwells, the other two are further inboard...
Good Luck!
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Paul,
To add to 1955CJ5...
You may have already done these, but there are some other items you will want to disconnect before pulling the tub.
Speedometer cable
Oil pressure gauge
Wiring harness
Throttle and choke cables
Fuel line to tank
Remove steering wheel or entire system
Gear shift tower
There are probably others that I'm forgetting. Taking a Willys apart is almost as much fun as putting it back together. I envy you. 8-)
Tim
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You may have already done these, but there are some other items you will want to disconnect before pulling the tub. �
Speedometer cable
Oil pressure gauge
Wiring harness
Throttle and choke cables
Fuel line to tank
Remove steering wheel or entire system
Gear shift tower
Thanks, Tim. I did plan on doing all that! ;)
I notice you don't have pedals on that list. I haven't looked that closely yet, but I don't think the pedals will fit through holes in the floor will they? I figured something was going to have to be removed there... Please correct me if I'm wrong! (I don't want to do more work than necessary.)
-Paul
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Pull the pedals..
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Some of us forgot the sneaky little foot feed from the bracket on the back of the engine block. Which bracket ,by the way, can be put back on upside down :-[
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Make sure the accelerator bracket goes on before the tub goes back on. It is much easier.
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Some of us forgot the sneaky little foot feed from the bracket on the back of the engine block. �Which bracket ,by the way, can be put back on upside down �:-[
In the name of general knowledge, how can it be put on "backwards" and what happens when it is?
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I should have said right side up or down rather than on backwards. I put it on upside down and set the tub down and put in all the spacers and bolts and then discovered that the shaft and lever thingy wouldn't clear the exhaust manifold. With only two bolts holding the bracket to the engine block the hole spacing is the same either way so the pivot for the cross shaft can either be the right height or the wrong height. I really hadn't planned on admitting my stupidity but in the interest of maybe helping out another Willys owner I have swallowed my pride. But the time I forgot about the left hand threaded lug nuts - now that will remain a secret :-X
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In found that it helped to take lots of photos before and during the tear down. I looked at these many times to see how it was before I got at it. Course it could still be wrong depending who got at it before you. ;) :-/
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Got all the bolts off. There weren't 14, though. At least one pair, maybe two, were missing. Probably half of them sheared off. Anyway, I think the tub is free to come off now--I hefted all four corners last night, and it doesn't seem there's anything holding it down.
I forgot the speedo cable and oil pressure line. I'm not sure there is an oil pressure line, though, since I think I got everything running from the engine through the firewall. The speedo cable is hiding underneath, and I'll have to remember that.
If all goes well, I should be able to lift the tub off this evening. I'll set up the camera to do a time lapse of that part as well. Maybe at one frame every 5 seconds (I used 15 seconds before) since it really shouldn't take to long to rig up some slings and lift with the shop crane... (I know: famous last words!)
-Paul
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Well, it came off okay. �Here's the fast version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3mQZPb0GTg
When I wasn't sure about the oil pressure line, I was thinking it would be like the one on my tractor (of the same age as the Jeep)--a metal tube exposing the panel gauge to the oil pressure. �I wasn't thinking it was just a wire! �It had been disconnected with all the other ones earlier.
Here's the tub, sitting on the driveway:
(http://www3.telus.net/plsmjs/jeepblog/_MG_0606.JPG)
About the only area on it that's not rusted badly is the dashboard and firewall. �Everything else is pretty rotten. �Since it's not original, I don't feel like tackling a repair on this--I'm leaning towards buying a new one. �Thoughts on that?
-Paul
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That is an M-38 tub.....is the frame also M-38..? �An M-38 frame may have large tie-down loops on it, front and rear and in the mid section too...they look like big footman loops...off the top of my head I can't think of any other easily seen differences...there must be a few though...
Repro tubs are an ongoing subject with much discussion.....Keep an eye out for a donor tub....or cut and weld...
M-38 parts at Midwest Military.net , G503.com, debellajeepparts.com...and there are several others....
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It is rebuildable but you will only save about the top inch of most of the rear quarters, the cowl, the firewall, the toolbox, And part of the front floor. Your front 1/4's are a toss up whether to save the top portions or just replace entirely. All the hat channels are most likely bad. Depending on how nice you want it the rear floor also may need replacement. I think this is a tub that someone may want to rebuild who can make their own patches, but to rebuild it with commercially available patch panels will cost a bunch. The removable floor panels are a nice feature of the M 38 tubs, if they are in good shape it will help your pocketbook as they are either impossible to find or expensive if you do.
Better used tubs are out there but may not be in your area.
Also if you choose to make it more of a utility type of restoration and don't care bout things like tool indents and the correct ribs on floor and wheelhouse panels, most is flat panels and bought by the 4x 8 sheet, , a lot cheaper.
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Looks like the BC salt did a job on it. :'( >:(
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The tub is missing some M38 features.
From this photo, you should see the battery box in the cowl, the decontamination brackets on the tool box, mounting holes or the actual brackets for the top bows and rear seat.
Could it be an M38 reproduction tub? I'm not as familiar with some of the early repros.
Tim
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The tub is missing some M38 features.
From this photo, you should see the battery box in the cowl, �the decontamination brackets on the tool box, mounting holes or the actual brackets for the top bows and rear seat.
Could it be an M38 reproduction tub? �I'm not as familiar with some of the early repros.
Tim
That's interesting isn't it?....A Canadian version?...or a repro, or?
More pictures!
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I had this conversation with BobW back when I got it in '08. The tub is a reproduction with features of both M38 and CJ3A.
Other than that, BobW concluded that it was a CJ3A with features consistent with its licensed serial number. (Since it doesn't have its original ID plate, the S/N on the registration is all I've got.) Now that I've got it torn down, we can take a closer look at things like casting numbers to see if they support that conclusion. (The engine is from a 2A, though, but it was known to have been replaced in the 80's.)
I'll be taking some better pictures of the frame soon.
-Paul