My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: Ryan_M on March 14, 2013, 07:20:46 AM
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So I accelerated my plan of waiting until next year for an overdrive unit, bit the bullet, and ordered one from Herm this week. I've read through his online instruction manual and a few other posts that I found on various forums. Looks like install is fairly simple, with the slip ring placement being the most tedious (and critical) part of the whole process. Can anyone else who has one of Herm's overdrives offer up any tips or things to watch out for when installing one?
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I had one problem with mine that turned out to be because my 3B is a Jeep Salad.
The engine and trans are from a '53 Wagon or Truck. There was a bit of a spacing difference between the transmission and transfer case which caused the overdrive to pop out of 1:1 fairly often. Herm sent me some shims that solved the problem. He's great on support.
Be sure you put the oil scoop in correctly. Without it, the overdrive will eventually self-destruct from lack of lubrication.
Also, be aware that the transmission and transfer case share lubricant through a very small hole. It takes a while for the level to equalize. Check the fluid level after you've driven a few miles.
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Yes, be sure to put that clip in properly! When I installed mine, I jacked up the rear wheels and put it in gear (engine was running of course) for a while to let the oil lube to OD before actually driving it. Also, throw out the rubber boot that comes with it if you are using leather shifter boots. Use another transmission shifter boot and trim it to fit the retainer ring. Also, carefully notch your tranny cover. �;)
Here are a few pictures of when I did mine.
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx125/willyscjmj/1953%20Willys%20CJ3A%20Jeep%20Restoration/100_6037.jpg)
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx125/willyscjmj/1953%20Willys%20CJ3A%20Jeep%20Restoration/100_6027.jpg)
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx125/willyscjmj/1953%20Willys%20CJ3A%20Jeep%20Restoration/100_6024.jpg)
If you have a reproduction body, you might have to cut this corner off like I had to.
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx125/willyscjmj/1953%20Willys%20CJ3A%20Jeep%20Restoration/100_6029.jpg)
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A funny (now) twist in Willy's history, the engine I have in my 3A came from Ryan's 3A. Back in the day an unnamed relative thought a 3A could do 60mph.
Note to JeffM... Borrow the kid's jeep next time he comes to town. I'll ride with you and we'll see if the new OD makes a difference.
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A funny (now) twist in Willy's history, the engine I have in my 3A came from Ryan's 3A. Back in the day an unnamed relative thought a 3A could do 60mph.
Note to JeffM... �Borrow the kid's jeep next time he comes to town. I'll ride with you and we'll see if the new OD makes a difference.
BMIC - 60mph still remains an elusive achievement with my Jeep. The last and only known attempt at such reckless velocity was made nearly 30 years ago. Recorded history barely goes back that far but the tales passed down through the ages put the record at just over 50mph. A noble feat by the standards of any daring test pilot.
Last weekend, although deemed impossible by many, I shattered that long-standing world speed record as I watched the quivering speedo needle briefly graze the 57mph mark. �It was, admittedly, made possible with the help of a long downhill grade and a fair tailwind - but cheating has never left me with much guilt so no sense in second guessing myself now. Initially, I thought I was blacking out due to the acceleration G-forces but I soon realized it was only the recirculating exhaust fumes pushed forward by that helpful tailwind. �
A later attempt on a flat and wind free test area rewarded me with a 52 mph run. Contrary to the sound and feel of the effort, �I was surprised that some (or all) of the driveline components didn't come rocketing up through the Jeep's thin metal skin and shred me to ribbons.
I motored home victorious but more determined than ever. When I arrived I picked up the phone and called Herm.
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I made it to 65 once with mine.
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I made it to 65 once with mine.
if you don't hit at least 80 with that hot rod carb configuration i am going to be disappointed.
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I'm not sure if I would want to do 80 in a Willys! �;D And the speedometer only goes to 70. �;)
I will wager however, that the dual carbs will help a lot with keeping up with traffic.
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A funny (now) twist in Willy's history, the engine I have in my 3A came from Ryan's 3A. Back in the day an unnamed relative thought a 3A could do 60mph.
Note to JeffM... �Borrow the kid's jeep next time he comes to town. I'll ride with you and we'll see if the new OD makes a difference.
We didn't know how fast it would go, but as we rarely exceeded 40, we decided to shoot for 50, which it just barely hit. �We then had to hit the brakes to make the quick right turn. �This almost didn't happen. �:-) �
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I made it to 65 once with mine.
Is that a backup light switch mounted on black bracket mounted to tower bolts?
JamesR
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http://cj3apage.com/forum-yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1363119194
;) Answer is here.
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It was the exhaust fumes Ryan, the only times I ever experienced a G-force in a Willy's was when my foot slipped of the clutch or when I backed into a fire hydrant.
So what are the actual benifits of installing an OverDrive? Just the additional speed? How much?
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I would say being able to travel near-highway speeds without having the engine rev out of its mounts would be a benefit, although it may still not be comfortable much over 50.
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I don't really need or expect higher speeds. I'd just like to be able to cruise at 40-45mph with the same RPM's that I'm currently seeing in the 35-40mph range. I think it will make the Jeep much more "driveable" on a daily basis. Should help on hill climbs too where you wish you had a gear somewhere in between 2nd and 3rd.
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Yep, that is the benefit of an OD. It lowers the engine RPM so you don't have it screaming all the time.
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OD is installed and admittedly was much more difficult a job than I anticipated. The thing fought me every step of the way. With a significant amount of swearing and wrestling I finally got the damn thing in. After topping off fluids and running at a fast idle as stated in the instructions, I went for a very short test drive up and down my road. A couple immediate observations:
1. I had to remove the shift knob from the OD shift lever in order to push the lever far enough forward to engage the OD. With the knob installed, it hits the e-brake handle and will not engage the OD. Do I just need to bend the shift lever a little?
2. This one worries me a little more - When in direct drive (OD shift lever pulled back), the OD will jump forward into a "neutral" like position all on its own. Kind of like a synchro issue when old Jeeps pop out of second gear. �Any suggestions? I tried calling Herm but I think he is closed weekends.
And Nate, I noticed in one of your pics above the planetary gear lock washer appears to be in backwards? Is it?
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Yes, I had to bend mine to make it fit properly. It pops out of direct into the neutral position? That is really weird. I would think it would pop out of overdrive. Yeah, I would call him. You bought if from him rebuilt, right?
Can you circle what you are talking about in my picture? I don't quite follow. It was a brand new unit from AA.
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It is supposedly one of Herm's new homebrew OD's, not a rebuild. I will mess around with it some more and see if I can make any sense of it. I have not yet cut or installed the tranny cover. I want to make sure everything is in its final position before I break out the grinder again.
Here's what I'm referring to about your lock washer. Could be just the way I'm looking at it
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I will check that out. It it apart right now, so I can easily see.
To bend the shift lever, put the square block in the vise and bed it from there. It doesn't mark up your lever that way. ;) Good move on not cutting the cover yet. That is what I did too.
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Yep, mine is opposite of yours! Good catch. I don't know how much of a difference it makes though. Do the instructions specifically say which way it goes? I do not know where mine are atm.
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Yep, mine is opposite of yours! Good catch. I don't know how much of a difference it makes though. Do the instructions specifically say which way it goes? I do not know where mine are atm.
Although it does not specify in words which way it goes, Herm's instructions have that exact pic as the visual aid. Seems like it would be the right way as it "locks" everything together. At least now we know it doesn't make a huge difference either way, as you have proven.
I've been doing some research and the issue I'm having with the OD popping out of direct drive is not entirely uncommon. I'm still not sure what the exact fix will be but I'm pretty sure Herm will have a solution for me. He seemed to get everyone else straightened out.
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My OD had the tabs in, not out, and I can't see how it would lock that nut behind it with the tab out. I ruined mine as I didn't realize it wasn't the actual nut at the time I opened mine up , and tried to spin it out with the impact.. Bad move!! I might be able to save it but....I'd rather have a new one.
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I'll flip mine around.
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I fixed it and I see why it needs to be the other way. It prevents the nut from backing out. Appearently, it doesn't make much of a difference though as I have tested it for 3 years now. ;D
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I've been doing some research and the issue I'm having with the OD popping out of direct drive is not entirely uncommon. I'm still not sure what the exact fix will be but I'm pretty sure Herm will have a solution for me. He seemed to get everyone else straightened out.
Yes, he will.
Mine was doing that too. He sent me some shims to correct the problem. Hasn't popped out in over two years now.
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OD is installed and trim pieces buttoned up. A couple suggestions I would make to anyone else who installs one:
1. Attach shift lever rod to OD shift rail BEFORE installing OD unit. Doing so after the fact is nearly impossible unless you have 6-jointed fingers.
2. Shift stick is made for generic applications and may need some bending to fit properly. Test fit and bend BEFORE making it all pretty with 6 coats of paint and clear coat. None of that holds up well to the extreme heat of a MAPP gas torch.
After speaking with Herm, he thinks the reason I am popping out of direct drive is that a synchro is stuck. Apparently this can happen if the unit is shifted before being driven around, which is what I did. The OD unit arrives pretty well greased up to keep components from falling out and may be what's causing the problem now. He states that the synchro will likely free up after a thorough workout. Since the roads here are still encrusted with salt it will be awhile before I can put many miles on it. If I still have problems I'll probably be asking him for some shims as this seems to be the standard fix.
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Keep us updated Ryan. It will be helpful to know how it is fixed for future reference.
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235 miles logged since the OD install and it still pops out of direct drive. It is absolutely fabulous in all other aspects though. What a difference between cruising between at 40mph and cruising at 50mph! I drove 140 miles last weekend like it was nothing. The motor certainly appreciates the gearing upgrade too - it's so quiet that it now allows me to hear all kinds of other problems in the drivetrain that would have otherwise gone blissfully unnoticed. � :-/
Herm is going to be sending out some magical parts that will hopefully remedy the direct drive issue. I'll update again once I have them in.
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Let us know!
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Shims and adjustable screw cap have arrived from Herm, are installed, and roughly 50 miles put on the Jeep. With the screw cap too tight, it shifts between OD and DD very hard and grinds loudly, especially going in to DD. Once in DD, it seems to stay there as it should.
If I back off the adjustable screw it shifts much more smoothly but is back to its old trick of popping out of DD under any sort of load. If I set the screw adjustment somewhere in between, it'll grind AND pop of of DD. Not exactly the fix I was hoping for.
Herm is suggesting I send the entire rear part of the OD unit back so he can inspect. �I think I'd rather pull out one of my own teeth than disassemble this thing again (I've done it 4x now already) and then be down for however many weeks it takes for turn-around time and maybe a solution, maybe not. He also mentioned it could be the end play in the transmission shaft but I don't think that is the issue. I'm leaning towards just holding it in DD when needed as I spend most of the time in OD anyways. Still not right but I'd rather send it back to Herm next winter when I can't drive anyways instead of ruining the next month of good driving.
Has anyone else who installed the shims and adjustable screw cap had a similar problem, and a better solution?
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I got to drive mine the first time on Monday and I noticed that the new bronze shift fork stopped the grinding. With the old aluminum one, it would grind a bit. And it feels more positive when shifting into OD. Maybe you could check you fork to see how tightly is fits on the shaft? If it has movement, I could see that being a problem.
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... but I'd rather send it back to Herm next winter when I can't drive anyways instead of ruining the next month of good driving.
That's how I handled my problem.
My solution with Herm actually took two years because I didn't want to take the Jeep down during the summer. He had no problem with that.
Just keep in touch with him so he knows that's what you're doing. He'll understand that you're wanting to drive it while you can and fix it in the winter.
I have nothing but good things to say about Herm and his support.