My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: 1955CJ-5 on January 17, 2013, 08:37:53 PM
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I looked at a 1953 CJ-3a today. Pretty good jeep, but it has an F-head and a nasty hole in the hood. �The jeep also rides about 4" too high on the springs due to a few leaves being added by a local spring shop. that would be fairly easy to remedy but the more i looked the more I began to question the shackles and spring mounts. I have a 55 CJ-5 and the front spring pack shackles go through the rear eye of the spring and then fit through a hole in the frame. Silent bloc bushing in the front spring eye. Same style "U" shackles as the 3A.
This 3A had the spring shackles through the front eye of the spring pack and then through a bracket that was riveted and welded to the frame.
Is this correct?? I'm having a hard time finding a good picture but will keep looking...
I know they relocated the shackles to the front after 57 on the CJ-5 so I was thinking maybe this 3A had a CJ-5 frame under it....?
Is that possible?
Thanks!
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Does this help?
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/51%20Willys%20Jeep%20CJ3A%20Rehab/SANY8205.jpg)
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/51%20Willys%20Jeep%20CJ3A%20Rehab/DSCN0654.jpg)
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Thanks Ryan,
What a great looking jeep! I sure wish this one I'm looking at still had the L-head in it.
And yes, that does answer my question. SilentBlocs in the back and shackles in the front.
I have another question.
On the left/drivers side of the bell housing is an opening for the clutch release lever..this is normal.
The 3A that I looked at today also had an identical opening on the Right/passenger side of the bell housing. No clutch lever of course, but the opening was there and you could see the pressure plate and the back side of that top inspection cover very clearly...did they ever make right-hand drive 3A's that would require clutch access from the right side?
Thanks again...
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I have another question.
On the left/drivers side of the bell housing is an opening for the clutch release lever..this is normal.
The 3A that I looked at today also had an identical opening on the Right/passenger side of the bell housing. No clutch lever of course, but the opening was there and you could see the pressure plate and the back side of that top inspection cover very clearly...did they ever make right-hand drive 3A's that would require clutch access from the right side?
I don't remember what mine has but from looking at this pic it appears there is a hole on the passenger side with a cover over it. Here's a pic at least - one of the guys that really knows what they are talking about will have to chime in.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/51%20Willys%20Jeep%20CJ3A%20Rehab/SANY8051_zps56768076.jpg)
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Thanks again..
We may not know why it's there, but it seems to be normal for a 3A..I was thinking that the bell housing might have been from a DJ-3a or something...
Randy
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This is a typical bell housing on a 3A...
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/Untitled.jpg)
There may have been RH drive 3A Willys Jeeps, but I've never seen so much as a photo of one.
There are a lot of guys here that are far smarter than me. �Hopefully they will chime in.
A DJ may be a good thought. Old postal Jeeps were often RH drive.
Welcome to the 3A.
Tim �
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The bell housing on my 3a has an opening on the passenger side where your is as well....except it doesn't have a cover (yet). It also has an F-head in it, so not sure if that has something to do with it or not. My F-head is one from a '54 �Willys truck...unknown if the bell housing came with the engine or original to the 3a. Although it's not a perfect match. There's a gap on the passenger side near where the starter motor meets the bell housing.
I'll add a picture in a bit.
I'm using a Holley 1904 carb to solve �the F-head fitting under the hood. I have about 1 1/2 inches of clearance to create the air horn.
Bell housing opening - passenger side.
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/carneyjb/Bellleftside_zps052b0026.jpg)
Gap in the match between engine and bell housing. Kinda hard to see.
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/carneyjb/Bell-engine_zps9a9494fc.jpg)
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This jeep also has an f-head as i mentioned, it's a 4J engine so I think it came from another CJ....but there is so little clearance between the valve cover and the hood that i doubt even a Holley 1904 will clear. I'm not sure why. The body to frame insulators are mostly missing, so that ought to buy about a quarter inch. I'm wondering if aftermarket motor mounts are available that would be thinner than the originals. This has the same mounts as my CJ-5, which I'm guessing are the same that were used with the l-head.
It has a solex on it now, you can see it here.
http://boise.craigslist.org/cto/3472038916.html
Any comments are welcome. Most of the accessories will un-bolt, except for the front frame plate which is pretty thoroughly welded. there is a huge hole in the dash where someone put a radio and a 9" oval speaker.
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Factory CJ-3A bellhousings will be the type with the clutch linkage hole in both sides. This same bellhousing was also found on Truck and Wagons of that era. Willys was trying to standardize components between product lines. The tin cover on the right side hole is not found on the very first CJ-3As but then later it was included from the factory to help keep junk out of the bellhousing.
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(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/carneyjb/Bell-engine_zps9a9494fc.jpg)
Gap in the match between engine and bell housing. Kinda hard to see.
In the 1952 - 1953 time frame the engine block castings changed to a larger rear flange. This photo is showing a late engine flange with an earlier bellhousing/rear plate. Looks like the bellhousing/rear place may be original to the 1951 CJ-3A but as mentioned the engine is later.
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Thanks for the pictures and other info....this 3A definitely has the bell housing that goes with the F-head. It did not have the rear facing hole for the clutch cable. I suppose the original bell housing went with the original engine. The fellow swapped them out about 15 years ago...
From your pictures I was also able to learn where the original accelerator/carb linkage mounted. That too is missing on this 3A as you would expect with the engine swap. This 3a still has that sheet metal guard that is between the starter and the frame rail. It also has the drip rail under the rear seam of the hood/cowl. It has a lot of good points, but some bad ones too...
If it had the original engine I'd would have loaded it up and brought it home......
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1955CJ-5,
I hate to highjack your post, but in my defense, you did ask about a bell housing... ;)
Bob W, so the photo above with the OD bell housing... this is on a late 1949 3A. (36662) Would this be original or would this belong to a 2A?
Tim
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Bob W, �so the photo above with the OD bell housing... this is on a late 1949 3A. (36662) �Would this be original or would this belong to a 2A?
That is not a CJ-3A bellhousing. There is always the possibility of it being installed at the factory if they ran into a shortage of the correct parts.
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So, in Ryan's post, post #1, the picture shows a correct 3A bell housing??
And the OD housing is most is a 2A, possibly installed on a 3A by the factory
The other housing with the slots in both sides is probably a CJ-5..
So someone look at that craigslist link above and give me a few comments. I've been to see that jeep 3 times. Probably would have bought it yesterday as I took a trailer with me, but we could not come together a price. You won't hurt my feelings!!
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So, in Ryan's post, post #1, the picture shows a correct 3A bell housing??
Yes, and it should have the opening in both sides. EDIT It does have the opening in both sides as seen in his photo a bit further down.
And the OD housing is most is a 2A, possibly installed on a 3A by the factory
It's not a CJ-3A bellhousing. I don't know the history of the Jeep to make a good judgement about how that bellhousing got there.
The other housing with the slots in both sides is probably a CJ-5..
That is a CJ-3A bellhousing (also used on Wagons and Trucks). CJ-5s used closed nose starters that won't fit in this bellhousing.
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So someone look at that craigslist link above and give me a few comments. I've been to see that jeep 3 times. Probably would have bought it yesterday as I took a trailer with me, but we could not come together a price. You won't hurt my feelings!!
What is it that you want to do with it? If you're looking to do an authentic restoration you obviously have a substantial amount of body work to do and a motor that needs to come out. Someone also went a little nutty with the welder and "custom" metal work. If you're just looking for a fun rig to drive around then that changes its value to you. Almost anything can be a good deal if it fits what you are looking for and can be had at the right price. �Not sure what price the seller is stuck at but if you want to return a 3A to its stock form you can probably find something a little more original for a lower price. Just my $0.02.
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OK That is good information. So, the housing on the 3A that I'm looking at(I wish i had taken a picture) is potentially correct. It is a 1953 3A but made early in the model year, if I remember right the vin is around 600....that would be 10600...
So IF i end up with this jeep and IF I can find an L-head with the correct front plate/motor mount, I won't need to also find a bell housing.....
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So someone look at that craigslist link above and give me a few comments. I've been to see that jeep 3 times. Probably would have bought it yesterday as I took a trailer with me, but we could not come together a price. You won't hurt my feelings!!
What is it that you want to do with it? If you're looking to do an authentic restoration you obviously have a substantial amount of body work to do and a motor that needs to come out. Someone also went a little nutty with the welder and "custom" metal work. If you're just looking for a fun rig to drive around then that changes its value to you. Almost anything can be a good deal if it fits what you are looking for and can be had at the right price. �Not sure what price the seller is stuck at bit if you want to return a 3A to its stock form you can probably find something a little more original for a lower price. Just my $0.02.
I would like it to be fairly original. No car shows or parades. �
I would at least:
Find original size wheels/tires.
Lower the suspension, it's about 4" higher than stock right now.
I'd remove the roll bar, rear seat, diamond plate and mud flaps and return the spare to it's correct location--and that area looks good and intact. The baffle is there along with the curved hat channel. won't really know until the diamond plate comes off..it is bolted in place. I would also remove the front "brush guard". The plate is pretty firmly attached...
There are a number of holes. I wish I could figure out how to post a picture, I'd show you the dash....I use photobucket on other forums.
And you may be correct. There are probably better examples out there that would be a better starting point.
Here is a pic (I hope)
(http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s519/green55jeep/th_IMG_1694.jpg) (http://s1055.photobucket.com/albums/s519/green55jeep/?action=view¤t=IMG_1694.jpg)
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It is getting complicated. Late in 1952 the CJ-3A bellhousing changed to a type not shown in any of the previous photos.
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The two big holes in the instrument panel are not original. Looks like one was for a radio and maybe the big oval one for a speaker? Floor looks good from above but I'd be curious to see what's going on on the underside of those floor pans. All good stuff you can use to haggle a lower price......
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The under side of the front floors look good, and the tool box is intact. The hat channels are not perfect under there but they are very serviceable. The left front fender has a seam right near the top, with a corresponding flap underneath, but the right fender has no seam which would indicate filler. All four body mounts across the rear cross member are broken right at the curve.
Right now the seller will only knock $100 of the asking price. I'm thinking something a little closer to 3K. With nearly 1K for tires and wheels, a possible 700 for springs and then body work not to mention a L-head and hood.....it adds right up.
It would be a great farm jeep or just a putter around jeep just as it sits...I want more originality.
I'm hooked on the lack of rust, as everything else I've looked at is rusted through the floors and toolbox..
(http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s519/green55jeep/th_IMG_1706.jpg) (http://s1055.photobucket.com/albums/s519/green55jeep/?action=view¤t=IMG_1706.jpg)
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1955,
I am never going to be a Willys basher. �I think they are all awesome. �Well, I'm not a fan of what a Rock Crawler does to any Jeep.
That said, and with all do respect to you, at $3,600.00 I would expect it to have the L-134 engine with decent running gear. �A fairly clean tub would be a bonus. �These are the expensive parts in this hobby.
I got mine for $1,500.00 �I was able to drive it home. �It had a good engine, frame, tranny, T-case and axles. �The sheet metal, electrical and brakes were a mess.
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/Willys3July2010.jpg)
Based on what you have described in your wish list, for a decent engine, its components, wheels, tires...you've just spent �a couple grand. �Simply put, you can, and will find a very close to stock Willys for these combined expenditures. � ($5,600.00) or less. �You just may need to be patient.
Have you visited www.ewillys.com �?? �You might like it.
Tim
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Here is a good example....
http://boise.craigslist.org/cto/3486326390.html
Found on ewillys.
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Here is a good example....
http://boise.craigslist.org/cto/3486326390.html
Found on ewillys.
We have called about that jeep. it is about 3 hours away in good weather.
That is not a big deal, but the number on the jeeps title is an engine number, and that number does not match either the currently installed engine's number, nor the vin number on the firewall plate, so there are complications....
When titling in another state (the jeep is in Oregon) the vin will need to be inspected.
Patience....I need to make that my mantra....!
I visit ewillys every morning, then craigslist and then ebay.....ewillys is great and Dave is a wealth of jeep info...repeat after me...patience...
Your jeep looks great! Maybe I'll find one like that someday....
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Yeah, I hear you on title issues. I've walked away from an otherwise perfect 2nd Willys because they didn't have a clean title.
Maybe the 3A with the F-head is a good choice for you. I say, go with your gut on this.
Good luck...and good hunting.
Tim
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Thanks,
I'll let you know what happens..
Randy