My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: bwtufts on September 17, 2012, 01:40:43 PM
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Long story short, my 3A's windshield stood up doing 70 down the interstate yesterday. After getting it home and assessing the damage, it's obvious that she is leaning back further than it should be. The frame bent on both sides at the bend/radius of the "L" shaped arms where it attaches to the tub.
I'm preparing to get it back into shape and was looking for some measurements to get it back in spec. I figure I need the distance from the top of the windshield frame to the center of the bolt hole on the windshield frame pivot where it attaches to the body and the angle (taken from the top of the windshield) of the windshield frame when in the upright position.
If anyone has experience with doing this, please pass along any issues you ran into and how you did it. I figure that after I get the proper measurements and angles, I can heat up the bend while using a ratchet strap attached to the top of the windshield frame and the pivot bolt hole to ratchet it back into its proper position.
Thanks in advance!!
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Wow that really sucks! Is the cowl ok? Glass blow out?
I don't have the measurements, just wanted to say sorry. Do you have a reason for the failure? I've heard that is the reason some tow with the Jeep facing backward. Hind sight is always so clear. :(
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Surprisingly the glass stayed intact. The cowl suffered a little bit of damage on the driver side as the windshield latch was pinched between the cowl and the windshield frame when it came up. The culprit was the web strap used to secure the windshield to the grill while it's in the down position. I've hauled it like that a hundred times before; yesterday was the first time it came undone. For now on I'll be using a ratchet strap I guess!
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BW,
I'm not sure of the angle. �On a 2A I think it was 16 degrees. �
I went out and measured mine. �I had a hard time with the top edge of the windhshield frame because of the slope.
With a tape measure, I was able to catch the top edge of the canvas top channel. �From it, to the center of the pivot bolt, I measured 33 1/4" on one side and 33 3/8" on the other side. �(Clearly I am slightlty tweeked.) �Probably won't help you if you don't have the channel for a top.
Tim
Edit: I just looked at a photo of your Willys. You do have the channel.
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Thanks Tim! When I measured to the top of the hat channel, I got 34 9/16 on the driver side and 34 15/16 on the passenger side. With an angle gauge on the outside of the windshield, I got 64 degrees on the driver and 69 degrees on the passenger side. I can even see where the windshield meets the cowl, that I'm off about 1/2 inch there judging by the mark on the cowl where the windshield weather strip previously sat. Obviously I'm off a bit from your measurements.
I guess I'll take off the windshield this weekend and try to bend everything back, with heat, to your rough measurements and the line on the cowl where the weather strip use to sit.
Tim, is your windshield a reproduction or stock?
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My new reproduction windshield needed a little bit of "adjustment" right out of the box. I used a long metal pipe (1" ID I think) slipped over the ends to make the bends. That way, I could control exactly where the breaking point was. I left one side bolted to the cowl and slowly worked the other side a little bit.....then switched sides and slowly worked the other side....then back to the other side...ect, ect. An extra set of hands to brace the windshield also makes a BIG difference.
Good luck!
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Thanks Mark! I hadn't even thought of using a "cheater" pipe for leverage. I would imagine that is a lot easier to control than a ratchet strap like I had planned. Did you use any heat in the process, or just bend it cold?
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No problem. I started with the rachet strap, but I couldn't keep the strap exactly where I wanted it and I couldn't "feel" how much pressure I was putting on it. I also had to bend mine both up AND out away from the cowl to get my windshield to "sit" right on the cowl. It is still not perfect, but a lot better than what I started with and some of the issue is the rubber cowl seal not fitting correctly..(see other posts on that).
I bent my windshield arms cold, but I didn't have to bend them as far as you might. If I had to go very far, I would heat them up with MAPP gas, or if you don't want to mess up the paint, you might try a good heat gun. Take it slow. A 1/2" bend at the arms will make a big difference at the top of the windshield.
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One more thing. An easier way to measure might be from the top, center of the windshield to the front center of the hood to gauge your angle. As far as being square, I stood at the side of the jeep and measured how straight the windshield sat in relation to the dash.
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Just be really, really careful how you tweak on the frame.
You can crack the glass in a heartbeat with very little pressure in the wrong place.
It's a miracle the glass didn't break when it flipped up.
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Hey guys,
I'd re- think putting heat on those arms. Heat makes a very specific bernd point and it will distort the light sheet metal around the heated area. Mine got tweaked real bad not too long ago, when the arms bend they bend along a really long radius. And mine pushed the windshield back over three inches when it tweaked. In order to fix it, I took the windshield off and bolted it through the hinge holes to the garage wall, just one side at a time, then blocked it at the point nearest to the radius and started cold bending it,moving the blocks toward the windshield top a little at a time. I was only able to take about 1/4 inch of tweak out at a time along the whole arm length, then move to the other side to prevent tweaking the frame in the process. Took a couple hours but it all came out ok, no paint damage, no kinks, a couple broken spot welds but not too bad. You might give it a try before heating it.
Todd
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BW,
Mine is the original windshield frame. �Because of the 1/8" difference from one side to the other, I was hoping one of the other fellas would throw a tape on there's for confirmation. �As I'm thinking about it, the other thing that may mess with the measurements I gave, would be the windshield to cowl seal. �Mine is a new repro. �And I hate it. �It doesn't seal very well at the bends.
Tim
Edit: I think I'm losing my mind. Why in the heck would the cowl seal make a difference??? :-? :-? :-?�It's been a long day.
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I have a stock windshield frame with the channel. It happens to by lying right here next to me so I barely had to get out of my chair to go measure it. No glass installed but that shouldn't matter. From the top of the channel to the center of the pivot bolt as Tim described, here's what mine looks like:
Driver side: 32-7/8"
Passenger side: 33-1/8"
This windshield frame is original to my rig but has not been installed since I've owned it. I'm not certain it sits correctly but I'm guessing the tub isn't square either.
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Gunslinger, I think you're right. Heat might be a bad idea and too hard to control the bend. I figure I've only got to adjust about 1/2 to 3/4 inch anyways. I'll try the cold process this weekend using a piece of pipe and post my results.
A couple pics of the damage...
(http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/uploads/3541/DSCN1130.jpg)
(http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/uploads/3541/DSCN1133.jpg)
(http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/uploads/3541/DSCN1135.jpg)
(http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/uploads/3541/DSCN1137.jpg)
(http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/uploads/3541/DSCN1138.jpg)
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As I recollect the windshield should be 15 deg back from vertical and it should measure approx 66-67" from the top front edge of the WS frame to the rear top back edge of the jeep.
Larry
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Rock,
You are still batting 100 percent! Exactly right.