My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: bretto on August 08, 2012, 02:40:45 PM
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My rig is a M38 with a little CJ3A under the hood. My question is, has anyone tried or is using an Airtex Master 9562 pump? I'm guessing it needs the spacer. Right now I have a Carter fuel only pump but would like a set up to properly run the vacuum wipers in stead of relying on the manifold vacuum. Or does anyone have a stock set up they'd sell?
Thanks,
Brett
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Hey Brett.
I'm not familiar with that specific pump, but I believe the general rule for 3A and M38s is the pump will need the spacer. I believe I ended up with an F-head pump, but no big deal when you own a salad.
Two reasons that I know of:
1. �It reduces the fuel pressure. �Because of the spacer, there is less fuel pump 'arm' making contact with the cam shaft lobe.
2. The other reason I found was that the larger head of the vacuum pumps need to be moved away from the block so they fit behind the front engine mount plate. �That is what the gap on the back side of your plate is for. �If you go to fit your new pump without that spacer, you will see what I mean.
Because I know how talented you are, you can make your own spacer. �(that's what I did) �I think I used 3/16" thick scrap steel. �I used my pump as a template. �Drew it, cut and drilled it, polished it...waaa laaa, spacer.
Tim
Shot of the gap in the engine plate.
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/engineplateback.jpg)
Shot of my fuel pump installed.
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/vacuumfuel.jpg)
�
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Do you know the part # on that pump? Looks like your engine plate is ground on the inside edge?
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Just for reference, the 2 stage pump requires a spacer, the single stage pump does not, no matter what year engine.
Larry
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Yep,
Even with the spacer, with this pump, I had to create a bit more space.
I don't remember the number. Got it off Ebay.
This is it:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jeep-Willys-CJ2A-3A-Cj3B-134L-134F-vacume-fuel-pump-/300512563274?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45f7f1d04a&vxp=mtr
It's a decent pump, but I wish I had the money for a real M38 pump.
Tim
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This one would work right?
AC9562
(http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb356/1brale/Misc/pump.jpg)
(http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb356/1brale/Misc/pump2.jpg)
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Yeah Brett,
I'm not super sure, but that looks like the right pump for a 3A.
Tim
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has anyone tried or is using an Airtex Master 9562 pump? �I'm guessing it needs the spacer. �Right now I have a Carter fuel only pump but would like a set up to properly run the vacuum wipers in stead of relying on the manifold vacuum. �
Hi bretto, I installed that exact pump during the rebuild of my Jeep a few years ago. �I purchased it new from Northern Auto Parts in Sioux City, IA (northernautoparts.com). �I'm using the spacer, it came on my Jeep originally. �(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo336/calvinhunt/April2009004.jpg)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo336/calvinhunt/Adjustingthevalves004.jpg)
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Calvin, did you have any clearance issues between the keyhole in the engine plate and that particular pump?
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I had no clearance problem at all with the keyhole in the engine plate. �There may be one possible concern--as you can see in the pics I used a steel supply line from the engine oil galley port behind the fuel pump to the oil filter. �It is routed rearward and then a large radius bend brings it back to its original routing up through the original support and towards the oil filter. As I remember I didn't do that because of clearance problems, I just copied what we do in aviation: where there is no relative motion between components, a steel line is used instead of a rubber line that deteriorates with age. �This item has come up before on this site and many have said that a rubber hose will outlast a steel line. �They say the steel lines will crack. �I should add that in the aviation industry all lines are made of stainless steel. �The line I have used here is just a NAPA doubled-flared brake line. �However, they last for years in cars and trucks being subjected to much higher pressures and many many more miles than I will put on my little Jeep in the rest of my life. �I believe they will perform well. �Time will tell.
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Off Topic, but Wow, that's some pretty impressive plumbing on both of those rigs. Nice Work.
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I will echo Gunslinger, great work!!!
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Calvin, the oil line I had that cracked was the one that goes to the timing cover.. I think the reasoning behind the rubber lines (I would prefer an aeroquip type line here myself) was that the actual oil filter does tend to vibrate and move around on that bracket...I do know the failure of the oil filter bracket is a vibration issue, why it fails like it always seems to (cracking around the bolt holes and across the bracket) is not something I claim to be an expert at..
That said, I do know that brake lines from a master cylinder to the frame on many pickup trucks are done with a bend or curve to absorb the between part movement, so the half loop you put in your line may eliminate any movement issues. The line I installed was only 90 degree bends, which might tend to crack.
I replaced my oil line with a parts store fuel/brake line piece of steel tubing, like you did, mainly because it was available and I wanted to get the jeep running again. (My jeep fixing time is extremely limited these days with home time being one or maybe two days at most...)
If we could cure the bracket and line cracking issues on jeeps we'd be doin' something!
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Hey athawk11 what is that in line from the fuel pump to the carb. Is that a filter? I was also impressed with the plumbing on both rigs. So much so I saved a copy in my CJ file as a must do!
Tumbleweed
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Tim, I was also wondering the same re: your filter. And, do you have a pressure regulator for the Solex? If not, how does it run? Not too rich???
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Full disclosure...I copied Calvin on his plumbing. So I too will thank him and admire the plumbing in the beautiful yellow Willys.
That is my fuel filter. �It's a glass body with replaceable inserts. �I picked it up at Autozone. �I actually kind of like it.
This photo is a bit old. �I have replaced the PCV valve with the right one. �
Tom, I do run a bit rich with the Solex. �I still have to try a few things, but when I first got this, and after reading about the Solex, I installed a fuel regulator and dialed it back to 1-2psi. �It started to beg for fuel, so I turned up the dial to its max (5) and the begging went away. �Odd. �I tried multiple settings, but could never get it to work. �The regulator just choked off the Solex. �I took off the regulator and promised I would have that fight, another day.
Since then, I went back to a mechanical pump, �(I had an electric on it when I tried the regulator) and thought about reinstalling the regulator and messing with the air/fuel screw.
I must also admit, I was going to emplore you to help me with it, if I catch you at the Fall Colors Tour this year. �
I also have the original Carter sitting in a pile to rebuild. �I eventually want to see which carb the Willys prefers. �
This is all a lot of 'to dos' and at the height of Summer Willys Driving Season, I figured this is a good winter project. �This, and my horrible leak out the front of my transmission.
Tim � �
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Well after talking with Calvin, I have decided to try the airteX 9562 pump. I placed the order yesterday, so in the meantime I need to come up with or make a spacer. So as I read it, it's supposed to be 1/8" right? Or is that just a round about thickness? Does anyone know for sure. Maybe that is the total thickness including the gaskets to? Better yet, does anyone have one they'd sell?
Brett
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Well after talking with Calvin, I have decided to try the airteX 9562 pump. �I placed the order yesterday, so in the meantime I need to come up with or make a spacer. �So as I read it, it's supposed to be 1/8" right? �Or is that just a round about thickness? �Does anyone know for sure. �Maybe that is the total thickness including the gaskets to? �Better yet, does anyone have one they'd sell?
Brett
Walck's has 'em for $6.25
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Bretto, if you will PM me your address I will mail one to you free of charge. I don't ever intend to use a vacuum type fuel pump and I got it with the spare Jeep.
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Bretto, if you will PM me your address I will mail one to you free of charge. I don't ever intend to use a vacuum type fuel pump and I got it with the spare Jeep.
PM sent.......thanks,
Brett
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Brett,
Looks like it's coming together for you. I'll be anxious to see how it works for you and what you think of it.
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Calvin, I'm bringing the spacer with me and we will take it to him.
Strike that, he PM'ed me and wants it sooner. It will be in the mail when I get his address.
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I got the 9562 pump delivered yesterday.
Calvin, do you recall the arm being pretty strong to actuate? Compared to the other pump that I had in there, I am able to operate that pump failry easy but with this new one, I can bearly manage to get it to move at all. It's resistance feels like spring resistance so its not interference resistance. Maybe this is normal and it will break in? Strong spring! Good news is, it looks like it will fit in just fine with no issues other than moving the oil filter line out a bit to clear the mounting boss of the pump.
I have to get this in, Carl is expecting this to be running when you guys show up. Thanks for the spacer Carl.
Brett
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;D Well, you have about 3 or 4 weeks before we will show up so your safe there.
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Brett,
Yes, I remember the actuator arm to be very stiff. I just felt that was because it was a dual action pump. I haven't checked it again since I installed it over 4 years and 3000 miles ago. Working fine.
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I have it in, went in just fine. Just got to buy the parts needed to finish the plumbing. Those brass fittings are pricey little gems.