My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: Gunslinger on January 13, 2012, 12:24:50 PM
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Need some input from the team.
Thinking about upgrading the brakes on Triple X, the plan would be to change to the 10 inch brakes found on wagons on the front, this would include a new backing plate, larger wheel cylinders and new 10 inch drums. I have most of the parts as they were free to cheap. My question is, would a guy want to put self adjusting hardware on the front brakes or not? Generally you see these on rear brakes, but I don't know if they were ever on front brakes or not.
I would plan to upgrade the rear brakes by putting the old front end wheel cyliners on the back, thus increasing the size of that WC and improving stopping that way. I know this is a 1/2 step from doing 11 inch brakes and I'm still considering it. But I'm curious about the self adjusting front brakes with this post.
thanks
Todd
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Todd, I'm not a brake expert by any stretch of the imagination and am not familiar with either the 9 or 10 inch brakes which came on these beasts. �However, my 3A came with 11 inch brakes on all four wheels. �As best I can tell, they are off of a 1972 vintage CJ5. �I recently completed replacing the drums, shoes, wheel cylinders, and front brake lines and the self adjusters. �The self-adjusters are on all four wheels and have always worked great. �No pulling to either side, no temperamental adjustments to make. �I did find though that they will work best if cleaned and lubed once in a while to keep them operating smoothly. �Probably just hitting them with some brake cleaner every couple of years is enough. �One thing that I did discover was that the PO put the primary shoes on the right side to the rear which made it want to pull to the right. �The primary (shorter) shoe should always go in the forward position. �I think some guys don't notice that the shoes are different but they are.
I might advise against putting front wheel cylinders on the rear, unless the bore of the new fronts is equal to or larger than that of the rears. �If the bore of the rear wheel cylinders is larger bore, you will drag your rear wheels trying to stop your jeep. �Not good. � On mine, the PO had 15/16 inch bores all around because he didn't want to change out the front brake lines which only fit the 15/16 wc. �I swapped out those old lines with the new 15 inch rubber lines which would screw directly into the correct 1 1/8 inch front wheel cylinders. �Now everything works great and jeep stops better than ever.
As far as I know, the only way to really tell the size of the wheel cylinders is to pull the cups out of the end and then pull out the black rubber stopper thingy that is in there. �On the back side (inside) of this black rubber stopper �is the bore size. �I believe, ideally, the rears should be 3/16 inch smaller than the fronts, however when mine had 15/16 all around, the rear wheels did not drag and the stopping was fine.
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Hey Tom,
I have been kicking around the idea of 11" brakes myself. I am not ready to do the overhaul yet since I have 50 other things pulling on my schedule but I have really been leaning in that direction. There is a ton of information out there on conversions and yours was very helpful regarding self adjusting questions. I wish there was a recipe for 11" conversion from 9" that was good solid information from start to finish. The problem as I see it is there is so much info out there and that is what confuses me (and I am easily confused). I will need all new backing plates, drums and internals as the stuff I took off my rig was shot. I will try and find a 72 CJ5 as you posted to see if everything will fit - front and back with my 16" rims.
Thanks,
George
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Tom, nice post, thanks
In the scenario I was thinking about, the new front wcs are from a DJ, so they are the 1.125 diameter and the old fronts are 15/16 which would do as you suggested, now the idea of the 72 CJ 5 is a good one as that stuff is easy to find and shouldn't cost an arm and a leg.
Did you get my PM? I should ge the pics of Triple X up this weekend.
Todd
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George, I have the 16 inch steel wheels too and notice no compatibility issues at all. But, as I didn't do the install, I can't speak to what problems, if any, the PO had. I'm pretty sure that any mid-'70's CJ with 11 inch brakes will match what I have, though some of the smaller engine options may have come with 10 inch brakes. I believe the 11 inch upgrade was post-1971. A parts store could probably tell you which '70's CJ's had 11 inch brakes and that might help you narrow down what you are searching for in a salvage yard. The only problem I ran into was that the front wheel cylinders will need new 15.5 inch rubber hoses that connect directly to the cylinders with a crush washer - you'll do away with the "S" steel lines and the short 7inch rubber lines.
Todd, I did get your message and would like to see your new ride. Might have to "caravan" with you to Utah next fall - I'm right on your way. Maybe Calvin will adopt us and we will never have to leave!
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11" self adjusting brakes from a CJ-5 around 1973-75 (check the dates, this is from memory) make a great upgrade for our CJ-3As and fit with minor modifications. I'd avoid mixing parts from different vehicles to be sure the front to rear bias remains correct. On an original CJ-3A the long brake shoe goes on the front but on the CJ-5 brakes with self adjusters the long shoe goes on the rear. These are totally different brakes.
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I stand corrected...the primary shoe on the '70's CJ 11" brakes is the SHORTER shoe, not the longer shoe as I had originally stated above. And it goes in the forward position on the brake. Thanks, Bob - good catch!