My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: macrisel on December 28, 2010, 06:50:25 PM
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Does anyone have any photos and/or dimensions of the footman's loops on the 3A tub? I'm a little confused on what was original and what has been added by everyone.
As of right now, I'm leaning towards not putting the brackets on for a top on my Jeep. My tub didn't come with them on there and I think I like the cleaner look with them off. It is going to reside inside a garage when it is not being driven so I don't need to keep the weather off of it. Still not sure about that........But, I definately want to put the loops on the wheel wells and on top of the tub. I just don't know how many there should be, what size and where to put them.
Does the obsession ever end?
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If no one answered your question, I will take photos of my original 53 steel tub, and footman locations and email them to you. Jim
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Thanks, that would be great! I don't really have to know the exact dimensions, I'm just trying to get a few pictures of where the loops should be. My original wheel wells have several large rust spots and a LOT of holes in them and just don't know where anything should be. I think there should also be some loops in the bed behind the seats, but I'm not sure.
Photos would be appreciated!
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I will take photos of my original 53 steel tub, and footman locations and email them to you. Jim
Hey Jim,
I've been watching this thread with interest. �How about posting your pics here?
macrisel
You mentioned that you may not be putting on a top. �I was told that the loops on the floor just behind the seats are for a canvas half top. They are there to secure back flap of the half top to the floor. �I'm curious to know if these loops were standard on all Jeeps coming down the assembly line or just for those that came with the optional half top. �
On my original tail gate there were four footman loops, but my Jeep came originally with a full canvas top which probably explains why they were there.
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You mentioned that you may not be putting on a top. �I was told that the loops on the floor just behind the seats are for a canvas half top. They are there to secure back flap of the half top to the floor. �I'm curious to know if these loops were standard on all Jeeps coming down the assembly line or just for those that came with the optional half top. �
On my original tail gate there were four footman loops, but my Jeep came originally with a full canvas top which probably explains why they were there.
My original body has the footman loops on the bed behind the seats, but they aren't the standard "bolt in" type like on the body; they are tack welded in slightly recessed areas.
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Go to the CJ2A forum and download the PDF file in the thread. It will give you the measurements for the loops on the top lip of the tub and also the front panel of each rear wheel housing. The only difference between a 2A and a 3A is that on the 3A both sides are the same while on a 2A the left side is slightly different due to the top bows retaining strap.
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/footman-loop-locations_topic16182.html
Those are the tub locations. In addition there is one loop at the top center of the windshield and a matching loop at top center of the grille. Those 2 hold the windshield down when folded. There are 4 on the tailgate and 3 more on the rear floor. Total of 19 loops.
As far as I know, and maybe BobW can verify this either way, the discontinuance of factory installed loops started with CJ3B production, but I could be wrong.
Larry
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As far as I know, and maybe BobW can verify this either way, the discontinuance of factory installed loops started with CJ3B production, but I could be wrong.Larry
I really don't know much about CJ-3Bs but they are not all the same. Because they were the next model in the CJ progression, the early CJ-3Bs have many characteristics of a CJ-3A and the late 3Bs are more like CJ-5s.
When using CJ-2A dimensions remember that a CJ-3A front enclosure was longer than a CJ-2A enclosure due to the new seat location. Therefore the footman loops in bed are located more toward the rear on a 3A.
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Once again, this thread had been very informative. �That's what I enjoy so much about the 3A Page. Interesting questions, informative dialog, and great answers.
I'm pleased with the outcome of my "non-purist" original restoration, but I chose not to add the footman loops on the rim of the tub. Like macrisel said, I like the cleaner look. �So, in the uninformed crowd, I can still claim I have an original Jeep. �One doesn't have to be very informed to know there were no Detonator Yellow Jeeps in 1949.
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When using CJ-2A dimensions remember that a CJ-3A front enclosure was longer than a CJ-2A enclosure due to the new seat location. Therefore the footman loops in bed are located more toward the rear on a 3A.
Bob, wouldn't that be evident by the recesses in the floor for the footman loops? I think the rear floor is the same for the 2A and 3A.
Larry
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Bob, wouldn't that be evident by the recesses in the floor for the footman loops? I think the rear floor is the same for the 2A and 3A.
The floor recesses are in a different location between a CJ-2A and CJ-3A.
The 1949 "Part List Jeep Models CJ-2A and 3A" is a great place to look when comparing body components. It is surprising how many of the body panels are different.
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With the 2A link of footman locations, my photos will not be required. I am in the process of putting on my full sized "Best Top" and getting it to stretch far enough to snap the perimeter. I have a portable heater in the cab to heat it enough to make it a little more pliable than the 15 degree weather we are having right now will allow. I bought it about 1999, used it 3 months, then moved to AZ and stored it untill this week. It is still like new, except a mouse ate a quarter size hole above the drivers head, that I hope vinyl patch will fix. ffI think I will have to wait untillnext week when this storm has passed and the sun comes out to help things out. It was 75 last week, (days) and 15 this week (night). Geez, I hate the cold. Jim
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Bob, wouldn't that be evident by the recesses in the floor for the footman loops? I think the rear floor is the same for the 2A and 3A.
The floor recesses are in a different location between a CJ-2A and CJ-3A.
The 1949 "Part List Jeep Models CJ-2A and 3A" is a great place to look when comparing body components. It is surprising how many of the body panels are different.
I missed a little something in that post. It should read "I think the replacement rear floor is the same for the 2A and 3A." That's where the problem comes in. If you have a factory floor the recesses will tell you where the loops go but if the floor has been replaced, measurements will have to be taken. I think, but am not certain, that the currently available Phillipines rear floor is based on the CJ2A. Can't swear to it though. As for Jeep Panels Plus, I don't know.
Larry
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Awesome, thanks Larry! That is exactly what I was looking for! Sorry it took so long to get back to the thread, but this "work" is really interfering with my Jeep time!
Now I'm leaning back to putting the brackets for a top back on the corners of the tub. While I don't want a top right now, who's to say I won't in 10 years? One day I may take a trip out west to see some of you guys and need that top to keep the desert sun off of me :D But seriously, I figure I should do it now while everything is in primer and not later after it is painted again.
Thanks everyone!
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Okay, I have another question. This may seem kinda trivial, but I'll go ahead and ask. Did the factory apply the loops and then paint the tub, loops and hardware all the same color? Or, did they paint the tub one color then apply the loops and hardware?
I know, very small detail to worry about but I'm more curious than anything.. ::)
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When I restored and reinstalled all of my footman loops, I painted them black. I saved the original machine screws and nuts and matched them up at the local hardware store.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t41/jeepchasm/100_3891.jpg)
I was thinking about painting them the same color as the body, but then I didn't want to have to deal with chipping and touching up the yellow paint, since the straps and buckles have a tendancy to chip them. The black ones are easy to touch up with a little Rustoleum! �;)
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Here's a shot of the ones across the back:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t41/jeepchasm/IMG_0784.jpg)
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Thanks! That is what I was thinking also, but I wanted to get another opinion. I'll probably powder coat mine to make them a little more durable. I powdercoated my oil pan/skid plate for the same reason.
In your second photo, it looks like you bolted your top bow brackets on. Is that correct and why did you do that over welding them? I was wrestling with this idea also. If you weld them on, how do you paint over/around/behind them to avoid a rust prone area? Do you just use a weld-thru primer underneath them? I'm probably just over thinking it..
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mac: There was not enough good metal to work with on my original tub, so I replaced it with a new one from MD Juan. I took off every little piece that I could to put on the new tub. The original rear corner tubes were blob welded on the original at each corner. I decided to repair the original tubes because the new ones sold by Omix-ADA are cheap thin metal. With the tub painted and the corner tubes painted, I have (hopefully) decreased the possibility of rust in another location! I know it isn't "original" but then again, neither is my yellow paint! �;)
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�So, in the uninformed crowd, I can still claim I have an original Jeep. �One doesn't have to be very informed to know there were no Detonator Yellow Jeeps in 1949.
Chasm,
It looks like we're both admitting to the world that our yellow Jeeps are not original in color. What else could we do? If you like yellow, and I do, yellow does the job!
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I am convinced the original color on my '51 3A is yellow. Currently it is red, which is covering the blue, covering the yellow! I plan to go bback to the original yellow after I reached a compromise with my wife. Yellow is not her favoriate.
Willis
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treeguy,
I'm not sure but I do believe there was a pale yellow somewhere in those years. Good luck!
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There was a pale yellow on the Willys color chart called "Michigan yellow." When I was looking at the DuPont paint book a number of years ago, I liked the yellows that really popped, that's why I chose Viper Yellow! �;D
(For the record, my original tub, grille, and fenders were Luzon Red underneath. My hood was Michigan Yellow under several layers, so It was swapped at some point in time.)
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My dad used to say, "painting a Jeep any other color than OD is silly. These are work vehicles, designed to get muddy and scratched up. Putting shiny paint on a Jeep makes as much sense as painting your shovel red and setting jewels in the handle. Sure, it could be done, but why ?"
Yep, he was a character...I miss his "nuggets of wisdom", as I called them.
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mud pie,
�Out of respect to your wise father's nuggets of wisdom, if I were to do my project over again I really would make it into an Army M38. I would mount the spare tire on the rear where it should be and it would be painted OD so I wouldn't worry about scratches. �
�However, I truly love my little bright yellow restored CJ-3A. But, I didn't overhaul the engine, gear boxes, brakes, steering box and linkages, starter, generator, electrical, etc., just to look good or to serve as a garage queen or a parade Jeep. �I made it to take four-wheeling on the trails (and I do as you've seen in pics previously posted). �I use it, but I don't abuse it. �I know that if it were OD I could get more use out of it without abusing it.
�
�There are pros and cons to each type of restoration. �To each his own. �You really can have it your way. �So, enjoy.
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo336/calvinhunt/Jeep%20White%20Mesa/JeepWhiteMesa2009.jpg)
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There was a pale yellow on the Willys color chart called "Michigan yellow."
(http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab191/rocketeer_2010/Jeep/1946and1947WillysPaintChips.jpg)
Larry
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mud pie,
�Out of respect to your wise father's nuggets of wisdom, if I were to do my project over again I really would make it into an Army M38. I would mount the spare tire on the rear where it should be and it would be painted OD so I wouldn't worry about scratches. �
�However, I truly love my little bright yellow restored CJ-3A. But, I didn't overhaul the engine, gear boxes, brakes, steering box and linkages, starter, generator, electrical, etc., just to look good or to serve as a garage queen or a parade Jeep. �I made it to take four-wheeling on the trails (and I do as you've seen in pics previously posted). �I use it, but I don't abuse it. �I know that if it were OD I could get more use out of it without abusing it.
�
�There are pros and cons to each type of restoration. �To each his own. �You really can have it your way. �So, enjoy.
I'm with you on this one; I used to argue with my dad (like all sons are prone to do... :)) that if the Jeep CAME painted a red/blue/green/whatever, what was wrong with restoring it back to that color ?
His response ? "Because it's wrong."
::)
Now, the ironic part ? Even though I disagreed with my dad, guess what color I'm painting mine ? You got it. OD green... :) I guess the apple really doesn't fall far from the tree...
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Ya mean like this CJ3A (Yep, it is a CJ3A)? �:)
(http://www.enter.net/~rocketeer/jeep/IMG_0060c.jpg)
As a Marine, you need to paint it Marine Forest Green, not OD! �;)
Stenciling would be in yellow.
http://www.tm9ordnance.com/research.asp
http://www.armyjeepparts.com/order_page/paint_bottom_1.htm
Hey! 1000th post!
Larry
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1000 ! �I thought i was doing well to get to 50... �:o
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Ya mean like this CJ3A (Yep, it is a CJ3A)? �:)
As a Marine, you need to paint it Marine Forest Green, not OD! �;)
Stenciling would be in yellow.
Hey! 1000th post!
Larry
Thought about it, but as odd as this sounds, to me, the USMC Forest Green and flat yellow stencils just don't look "right".....
When I was discharged from active duty, I went into the reserves. My only vehicle was my high school vehicle; a 1954 M38A1 totally restored back to original. Yes, that means even the US ARMY on the hood !! I never cleaned so much spit off my hood as I did back in the day.... empty soda cans on the floorboards, empty McDonalds bags, whatever trash they could find.... :) I once complained to the XO, his response ? "Be glad no one is turning it over or setting it on fire. Get out of my office."
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I once complained to the XO, his response ? �"Be glad no one is turning it over or setting it on fire. �Get out of my office."
;D
Larry
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Another nice photo Calvin! Thanks for sharing!
Having multiple Jeeps (wife permitting) allows one to have different Jeeps for different adventures! (Different paint jobs too!) I happen to pound the pi$$ out of a '93 YJ on the Pennsylvania mountain rocks. I would never take my CJ3A where I take my YJ, HOWEVER, I am confident that the CJ3A would have no problem following wherever the YJ goes. These days, the roughest roads the 3A travels are dirt farm roads!
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Chasm,
Did you also bolt the front top bow brackets on or did you weld those? If you bolted them also, can you snap a photo? Also, on the back brackets did you have one bolt come out on top of the wheel well and one below or did both of them end up above the wheel well?
Thanks!
Mark