My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: macrisel on November 08, 2010, 11:42:38 AM
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So I finally received my RepliTub late last week! ;D It's been a long process, but I started the rough assembly over the weekend to trial fit everything together. The only problem is.....it's been so long since I took everyting apart my mind has forgotten a few things... ::).....so I have a few questions.
What does everyone use for weatherstripping between the fenders and body/grille? The parts manual lists an "anti-squeak" pad but I'm not sure what that is. I'm guessing it might be some type of canvas material like the seal on top of the radiator, but I'm not sure. I would think that the canvas material might hold water and make it more likly to rust. I was thinking of using a very thin (paper thin) rubber seal. The old body had duct tape as a seal.. :)
Does the grille have any spacers underneath it? Even without any spacers, there is a pretty large (app 1") gap underneath the center bolt and the frame.
Did the factory put any type of seam sealer underneath? I might be putting too much thought into this, but I think it should have SOMETHNG under there....... Maybe I'm just applying to many modern techniques to this assembly.
Anyway, I'll try and update some photos on my Facebook page and post a link for everyone.
Thanks!
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Your right, seam material should not hold water (rust). You can use early Voldswagon Bug fender beading, which is made of plastic material ,and is faily inexpensive. Trim with a razor knife. For body mount pads, find an OLD 600-16 (or so) tire, usually free at junkyards, and cut strips out of the sidewalls, and cut the strips in 2" lengths and it will almost be a perfect match of the original body cushions. My '53 had no pad on the center bolt of the grill, nor the two side bolts to frame (below headlights) but I did put 1/8" pads under them for anti-squick I used old (but new) garden hose washers that were made with laminated rubber similar to tire sidewalls but much thinner. Had them around for 30 years, so not sure you could purchase them now. All you can find is "O" ring types. Good luck--lots of work, but more fun also. Jim
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A couple years ago I asked this same question. That was before I found the CJ-3A Page, however. I did find some webbing. I believe it was at Beachwood Canvas. Even then I chose not to use it because of moisture retention. I just assembled using nothing. I'm happy with the outcome. I didn't use any spacers under the grill. jamesr mentioned he cut strips from the sidewalls of and old tire for body mount pads. I almost did the same. Instead I found and old bias ply nylon tire and used a 2 1/2 inch hole saw to cut out all the body mount pads I needed. It was quick and worked great.
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Did either of you have issues with the fenders squeaking against the body or grille?
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I know I got a set of fender gaskets from Walck's but I'll be darned if I can find them on the website. Give Carl a call. I'm sure he still carries the set. There's a gasket between the fender and cowl, and also between the fender and step. There are thin strips similar to body mounts that go between the inner fender strap and the frame.
http://www.walcks4wd.com/
Larry
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If I'm not mistaken, they're called "welting" or "anti-squeak" or something along that line, not gaskets...
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Everybody calls them something different. Officially the ones between fender and tub are Anti-squeak. Welting is the ribbed stuff on top of the grill. Carl will know what you're asking for.
Larry
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If I am not mistaken the original stuff held moisture. If that is true, this is one area where one might consider varying from the original. Of course that depends on how authentic you are trying to be. If the original does hold water, perhaps a thin rubber membrane or a closed cell weatherstripping might work. I used the closed cell weather stripping on mine. It has worked ok.
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A thin rubber strip is what I had in mind.....about the thickness of duct tape (more or less). I'm not too crazy about using the original welting, but I will put something in there to maybe keep the squeaks down and avoid any metal on metal contact.
The rough assembly is progressing along slowly. It seems that this thing called "work" really cuts into my wrenching time. ;D Unfortunatly, those annoying things called "bills" force me to perform more and more of this "work".
I'll try and keep everyone updated on on the RepliTub. So far, it has lined up and fit very well. There have been some minor issues, but nothing out of the ordinary for aftermarket parts. The more I disassemble the original tub, the happier I am I went with a new tub. The repair list would continue to be growing on the old tub!
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Macrisel, Many of us have had trouble with fitment of the fenders and especially the shifter locations for the tranny and the t case. Have you had a chance to test fit those parts. If so, how does all that line up.
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Did either of you have issues with the fenders squeaking against the body or grille?
I have experienced no squeaking at all and I do quite a bit of off-road four-wheeling.
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Doug,
I have the tub sitting on the frame and the t-case and transmission holes line up very well. Willys Overland had already recut the holes and put a patch in to scoot the holes forward about 1". The patch is a little sloppy, but nothing a small amount of body work won't cure. Certainly easier than me having to put the tub on and off two or three times getting the location right to move the holes.
I did have to cut the hole for the PTO lever and it also looks like I'm going to have to cut the hole for the kick starter rod. The angle of the firewall is different, but difficult to tell the difference unless you have the original tub sitting right next too it.
Because I needed a new windshield frame and hood, I ordered and entire body kit. It was cheaper to do it this way than to order a tub, windshield and hood seperately. I already had my original fenders re-worked and painted so that I what I test fit to the body. I will try the aftermarket fenders also and see which ones fit the best.
Unfortunately, the rifle season for deer starts this weekend in Missouri so my priorities have changed yet again.....temperorarily. ;) I will return to my never ending project next week!
Mark
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Why Omix Ada does not correct the firewall angle is beyond me. People have been complaining about it for 20 years yet they don't correct it. You may find that the aftermarket fenders do not fit. They may have the wrong geometry in them. The fix is to open the spot welded seem on the back and change the shape and reweld them. Otherwise, you may find that it takes about 200 lbs of lateral force to push the fender in to meet the tub.
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Another update on the repro body. It seems the tailgate is much lighter on it than the factory one. I recalled one of our topics discussing the repro tailgates seeming lighter than the factory one. However, upon closer inspection I found that someone had made some "mods" to my factory one. These were done quite well and I'm coming to the experts to see if they were, in fact, factory.
On the exterior of my original tailgate, the open chanels on the ends have been closed off with metal and welded solid. Also, the interior of the tailgate has had two pieces of angle iron welded vertically on to it spaced about a foot apart. The addition of these two braces stiffened up the tailgate pretty good.
A silly question before I leave. Was the factory tailgate heavy enough to sit on without bending it to pieces? The reproduction I have doesn't seem heavy enough to sit a soda on without bending....
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A silly question before I leave. �Was the factory tailgate heavy enough to sit on without bending it to pieces? �The reproduction I have doesn't seem heavy enough to sit a soda on without bending....
Yes, the factory tailgate is/was very strong and, as you noted, much heavier than the repros. If you hunt around you should be able to find an original, if yours is beyond repair.
Larry
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On the exterior of my original tailgate, the open chanels on the ends have been closed off with metal and welded solid. �Also, the interior of the tailgate has had two pieces of angle iron welded vertically on to it spaced about a foot apart. �The addition of these two braces stiffened up the tailgate pretty good.
A silly question before I leave. �Was the factory tailgate heavy enough to sit on without bending it to pieces? �The reproduction I have doesn't seem heavy enough to sit a soda on without bending....
Sounds like you may have an M38 tailgate. Do you have any photos? My CJ-3A tailgate is strong enough to sit on without bending!!!
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Bob,
What is the best way to post pics?
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Create a free Photobucket account (or some other image hoster) and upload your pictures to the site and then link to them in your post here.
Larry
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Another update:
The aftermarket fender fits much better than the OE fender. The only catch on this one is the mounting hole to attatch it to the step is mislocated! Foreign parts..... >:( Looks like a little more body work will be needed. I also had to slot the holes in the front of the fender to line up with the grill a little better. I'm probably being a little too picky.......So, I'll end up having an OE fender on the passenger side and an aftermarket fender on the drivers side.
After I mounted the fenders and tub and squared everything up I ran into another problem. I sat my bumper on and immediately saw an issue. The drivers side of the bumper sat 1/2" lower than the other side. After measuring several other points on the frame, I came to the conslusion that the front frame horn was pulled down a little. When I first bought the jeep, it had some nasty homemade brackets welded on the frame to mount a snowplow on. I am guessing that someone caught the plow on something that didn't move and pulled the frame a little bit. Not too big a deal.....I'll just tie the frame down at several points and push the frame rail back up a little. Now that I have all the parts on I'll be able to make that 1/2" disappear..
Issue #2
My brake and gas pedals had a little bit of side to side play sitting in the old tub. This was not an issue in it because all the holes in the firewall were either rusted out or worn out to around 14" each (slight exageration). On my nice, new complete tub this "little" play turned into a LOT of play and my pedals were slapping off both sides of the holes and each other. I immediatly started questioning foreign parts again and saying curse words for them putting the gas and brake pedal so close together. Then, I pulled up the internet and looked up some pictures and found out that those pedal are indeed that close together. Looks like when I pull the tub off I'll be rebuilding the brake/clutch shaft. I recall someone posting a Willy's service bulliten regarding a "brake pedal wobble reducer" kit. Does anyone know where I can find one?
To end on a good note, I did get the drivers seat mounted on the tub. I went ahead and welded a nut onto the back of the frame to bolt through the wheel well. I debated on this, but decided the extra support was worth one more hole. ;)
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A nut on the back of the frame will space the frame farther away from the body. It won't rest against the tub. A hole drilled through the frame and tub with a bolt all the way through and the nut underneath the fenderwell would have been better.
Larry
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Here is the comparison between my tailgate and the repro.
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/macrisel/DSCN3725.jpg)
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/macrisel/DSCN3723.jpg)
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/macrisel/DSCN3726.jpg)
Is my old tailgate an M38 tailgate?
Finally, a couple of progress photos
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/macrisel/DSCN3715.jpg)
Both seats installed and the front bumber installed. �I pulled the frame this weekend also and squared it up. �It really didn't take NEAR the pressure I was planning on to push up the driver's side frame horn.
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/macrisel/DSCN3721.jpg)
Visions of things to come! �Both the hood and windshield fit pretty well although it was fun to manuver them by myself. �The windshield clamps are a little off compared to the tub, but I'll just have to slot a few holes. �Also, there no holes drilled for the rubber windshield to cowl gasket. �I can use my old one for a template to drill the holes. �Does anyone know if a new gasket will have the same hole locations or should I wait until I get the new one before I drill any holes? �
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Nice looking so far. I had the same type lockout hubs you have and hit a tree with one of them and the cap went into hiding somewhere. Then I bought a set of Superwinch hubs that were also prone to grenade at the slightest hit. Then I came across a set of Cutlas hubs that are as near bullet proof as possible and so far I like them a lot.
I will tell you to stay away from trees or rocks with your hubs, they will come off like a hand grenade if they hit the tree or rock.
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That's an M-38 tailgate with the bracing inside for the spare tire mount.
(http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/Photos/Tech/TailgateSpare/M38TailgateSpareManual.JPG)
Larry
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Thanks Larry!
Do you know where I can find the article on "brake wobble"?
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Here is a link to a brake slack removal kit install. � �The bolt tightening was a dealer installed fix to worn brake and clutch pedals. �The other method would be to remove the pivot which is welded to the frame and replace it with a new one. � On cj3a the pivot was welded to the frame. �On the M38 the pivot could be unbolted and replaced without welding. �
http://www.cj3a.info/tech/pedalslack.html
PS Your project looks great and brings back found memories. I wish I was in the middle of a rebuild like that right now. It will look really nice when done. :)
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Thanks Doug, it has been a massive project! I'm going to start a new topic on this wobble because I have more questions..