My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Modifications"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Incites => Topic started by: Jesse on December 07, 2013, 12:04:29 PM
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Hey guys thought you might be interested in this, just started mounting a winch to the back of the jeep the other day. I'm using a spicer pto box to a koenig C100 winch turned upside down. (Time will tell if this causes a lubrication problem) I took a drawbar and cut out the middle to fit the winch, and will be adding additional brackets. The trailer hitch is now in a receiver but will hit the rope on the spool. For just shuffling trailers around I'll use a stock hitch on the offset holes. Towing on the road happens less often so then I can spool the rope over to the side or whatever to put a centered ball in. The whole setup is a compromise anyways. Anywho, I'll post more pictures when the setup is finished.
-Jesse
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_2849_zps3b8e63cf.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_2849_zps3b8e63cf.jpg.html)
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Lubrication shouldn't be a problem as long as the seals work. Ramsey uses that mounting for many of their winches and the worm gear does fine.
Just curious, why the BACK of the jeep? No question the shafting is easier to do back there.
Should be no big deal to make a removable centered drawbar for on road towing.
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1. The pto came on a parts jeep 2. How many times have you driven into a mudhole and thought "Wow I would pay anything to back out of this" ?
The main gear will splash oil all over the place so I'm sure that will be good. The trailer hitch is a compromise but 95% of the trailer towing it gets won't matter with an offset. It has the 2 inch receiver now if it does matter. Just don't want eliminate a hitch altogether .
-Jesse
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I am liking that idea. I have the pto but no shaft or gear box. Not sure if I will ever do anything but who knows? Can you still drop the tailgate with that set up?
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Can you still drop the tailgate with that set up?
You bet, probably only an inch above the pto hole
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Okay so here is the gate down, which clears nicely.
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/29232e0c-67a2-40b5-9210-159f21b0d3ed_zpseb4f891b.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/29232e0c-67a2-40b5-9210-159f21b0d3ed_zpseb4f891b.jpg.html)
And here is my tire carrier, which hits the winch by about a quarter inch (Boooooo)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/6c18efde-51fe-486a-a3da-8a19d4032a57_zps7aeeaf60.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/6c18efde-51fe-486a-a3da-8a19d4032a57_zps7aeeaf60.jpg.html)
So now I have to finish up the brackets that go forward and hold the winch/fairlead. I'm going to attempt to mill out a hawse fairlead out of a chunk of aluminum, we'll see if it was worth saving the money of buying a real one.
-Jesse
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More than an inch clearance to me. Keep going with this it's pretty slick so far. Is your hitch tube just welded to the drawbar or also back into the frame somewhere else? Never mind with the inch clearance I misread your post.
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Having done a lot of trail riding's over the last three years I can tell you the *rear end end drags a lot on steep washouts, etc. You may want to put some protection under the winch to keep it from being damaged.
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Yes sorry I meant the winch isn't much higher than an inch above the hole. I have some triangles to weld onto the hitch tube and drawbar to brace it up. Worked for a couple of hours tonight, only got one of the side braces made.
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_2866_zps874133f6.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_2866_zps874133f6.jpg.html)
This one is for the passengers side
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_2867_zps7bb2fd99.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_2867_zps7bb2fd99.jpg.html)
Here it is showing the piece of aluminum that will go across the face of the winch and tie the two brackets together. (imagine the winch drum is where the red magnet is) Going to also try to machine a hawse fairlead into this piece.
As for protecting the winch casing I have't quite decided how to go about it.
-Jesse
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So a little more progress today, things are starting to take final shape. Have the side supports done
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_2877_zpsba372c72.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_2877_zpsba372c72.jpg.html)
And I have the start of the drum brake and the engage handle. The threaded part will screw the drum engagement in and out, the tube will have a brake pad to keep the drum from freespooling when loose.
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_2880_zpsf06a65db.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_2880_zpsf06a65db.jpg.html)
This is the bracket for the front with the start of the hawse fairlead getting cut in. It isn't perfect but should work OK.
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_2885_zps28c49b22.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_2885_zps28c49b22.jpg.html)
-Jesse
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That is really slick work. You've got skills!
Tim
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That looks great!
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That is a great idea! Thanks for posting :)
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Thanks for the kind words guys, this project has been slow and frustrating... Anyways. Progress!
Have the engagement for the spool figured out, and the spool brake.
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_2886_zps007785a7.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_2886_zps007785a7.jpg.html)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_2887_zps18c384ba.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_2887_zps18c384ba.jpg.html)
Many of the welds are broken on the braces so I have been re-welding them and also welding up unwelded joints.
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_2889_zps822b1e71.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_2889_zps822b1e71.jpg.html)
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(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_2892_zpsee9e7945.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_2892_zpsee9e7945.jpg.html)
That is about all for now. The winch is also coming apart but it has been fighting back quite a bit. It is pretty beat up.
-Jesse
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SteveW you asked how the receiver hitch was mounted, here is the back of it. I took the part I cut off at an angle and welded it back on as a brace.
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_2893_zps39a2d48f.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_2893_zps39a2d48f.jpg.html)
This thing is about done for now, check back in a while for the reassembly after paint and such!
-Jesse
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Jesse I think that a winch should be on the back like you have done and am going to do the same myself. I would be interested in knowing more about the other end of your project. I have the winch and drive shafts but have not yet procured the PTO box. I assume yours is one of those that comes straight back out of the PTO port in the transfer case. Did you use a 1 or 2 pc PTO shaft? Did you have any issues with clearances in routing the shaft? Do you have a carrier bearing anywhere in the shaft? Overall how is it working out for you and do you have any suggestions for improvements? The other thing I am wondering about is winch speed, do you direct drive or do I need to figure in a chain and sprocket system to increase or decrease the RPM's to the winch? Here are a couple of pics of the winch I am working with.
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Well I tell you what, I have to whole thing built but I don't have it installed. I am also working on a canvas top and I was sort of waiting to paint all of the parts I have made all at once. So right now I can't really tell you how it works. The setup is essentially the same as a koenig crane rig, just flipped over . It should still work. I have a spicer single output PTO unit with a single piece driveshaft. The drive shaft goes straight from the PTO to the rear crossmember. The PTO spins at a decent speed, but remember there is a worm gear inside the winch that makes it turn pretty slowly.
Your winch is pretty much the same thing as what I have going. I mounted it a little low so the tailgate would still open. To do that with yours just flip it so the driveshaft is on the drivers side. If you would rather have ground clearance and no tailgate then I guess yes you will have to run a chain drive.�
Does this answer your questions? I think I hit all of them.
-Jesse
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Thanks Jesse I think you got them all.
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Progress! Got the drum and drawbar painted this weekend.
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3308_zps6239a783.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3308_zps6239a783.jpg.html)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3307_zpsad651cd4.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3307_zpsad651cd4.jpg.html)
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Some more photos. Put new seal in the drive shaft, a new o-ring on the main shaft, and made gaskets for the case. I also fixed a crack in the case with some JB weld. I drilled the end of it and ground a big notch into the crack, that is about all you can do short of welding it. Did it mostly to prevent a slow leak anyways.
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3313_zpse062213b.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3313_zpse062213b.jpg.html)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3314_zpsc2bc539c.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3314_zpsc2bc539c.jpg.html)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3315_zpse48deb10.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3315_zpse48deb10.jpg.html)
-Jesse
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Got the winch assembled and filled with grease/oil.
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3358_zpsa34f9930.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3358_zpsa34f9930.jpg.html)
Bolted up the drawbar
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3359_zps0387416a.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3359_zps0387416a.jpg.html)
Put the winch on
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3360_zps6fb2dcec.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3360_zps6fb2dcec.jpg.html)
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Bolted on the cross brace and fairlead
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3363_zpsd9231183.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3363_zpsd9231183.jpg.html)
View with the tailgate down
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3364_zps9939c6f4.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3364_zps9939c6f4.jpg.html)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3365_zps34124823.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3365_zps34124823.jpg.html)
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With the tire carrier shut it barely sticks out. Tonight I'm going to put in the drive shaft and add the shifting mechanism to the winch.
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3362_zps70c39e89.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3362_zps70c39e89.jpg.html)
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Flippin A nice project on that.
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So a little update on the winch, it works really well and has plenty of power. I did kind of mess up with the engagement handle however. Now that there is a bit of mud/grime on the unit it is pretty difficult to turn the screw.
I also added a lockout for the pto by threading an eyelet into the transmission cover and cutting a short cable to hook between the shifter and the eyelet.
-Jesse
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looks pretty good, and I can definitely understand wanting a winch on the rear at times. there have been plenty of times when I wished I could just back up forget I ever tried to go through something.
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Round two is starting, I bought a Koenig electric winch to put on the front ;D
-Jesse
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I really like that swing away tire carrier you've got. whenever I get to that point, I think i'll make one for myself. is there any way you could show us a pic of your roll bar? from what I can see, it looks pretty good. also, the pans in the cargo area look really nice. did you replace them? congrats on the completion of the winch project. looks great.
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Sure I'll start a thread about the roll bar. The body is all brand new from the cowl backwards. It's all from classic enterprises.
-Jesse
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I spent some time today going to the steel yard and getting a mount made for an electric Koenig winch. Started out turned one way, but it makes more sense with the motor turned to the passengers side. Tomorrow I'm going to change how the front bumper is mounted and that is about all for fab work that needs to be done. Then on to taking the winch apart for a cleanup and new seals.
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3785_zpsui6rwdxd.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3785_zpsui6rwdxd.jpg.html)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3787_zps2jwmlh3i.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3787_zps2jwmlh3i.jpg.html)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3789_zpsxvzdpmg8.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3789_zpsxvzdpmg8.jpg.html)
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(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3790_zpszejtkchd.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3790_zpszejtkchd.jpg.html)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3793_zpsmi54zvvg.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3793_zpsmi54zvvg.jpg.html)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3795_zpsejugk0fj.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3795_zpsejugk0fj.jpg.html)
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(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3796_zpsdvuubqkk.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3796_zpsdvuubqkk.jpg.html)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3797_zpsikl2quga.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3797_zpsikl2quga.jpg.html)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3799_zpsmczhvje0.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3799_zpsmczhvje0.jpg.html)
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Got the bumper mounted today. Ended up cutting a big round hole in the back of it to fit the front bearing retainer. Otherwise the bumper stuck out about 2 inches forward of where I had it, about an inch further backwards from stock.
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3801_zpsbs2nnlgq.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3801_zpsbs2nnlgq.jpg.html)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3804_zpsssfv6upy.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3804_zpsssfv6upy.jpg.html)
-Jesse
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Hey I know I am showing up late in this thread, but great work...
do you have any video of both winches, or pics of the finished install...
:)
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Your electric Koenig winch is very interesting.
Never seen the high mount or "A" frame version before.
Do you have a model number or serial number on it ?
It appears to be missing the solenoid relay box.
Is it missing the drum engage / free-spool lever and the free-spool drag brake ?
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Sorry gentlemen, I put the jeep into storage in May and moved to Montana. Here is about the only photo of the winch installed...
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/IMG_1095%20-%20Copy_zpsj9tewoav.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/IMG_1095%20-%20Copy_zpsj9tewoav.jpg.html)
Here is what the winch looks like cleaned up and with the solenoids mounted
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_4004_zpsl9jpomju.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_4004_zpsl9jpomju.jpg.html)
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_4003_zpse0bhkfdv.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_4003_zpse0bhkfdv.jpg.html)
The handle on the winch engagement didn't fit where I wanted it so I cut it off and made a new one. You can still order most of the parts for Koenig winches from RKI so I didn't feel too bad about cutting it :D
I'll try and get more details to you in the future.
-Jesse
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Here is one more I guess of the rear winch in action
(http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae345/jrbarta/DSC_3521_zpsmxgrs6bi.jpg) (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/jrbarta/media/DSC_3521_zpsmxgrs6bi.jpg.html)