My Willys 3A and 3B Community
TECH FAQ SECTIONS => Gearboxes and axles => Topic started by: Ryan_M on April 10, 2016, 08:46:52 PM
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(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/1949%20Willys%20CJ3A%2031149/cd0fc7c6-dc9e-49ba-b4dd-0c07316e43ec_zpsaue9g8ry.jpg)
This puddle formed directly beneath the bellhousing of my red 3A after being parked for less than 20 minutes. Not good. It's gear oil. Even worse.
I pulled the trans/TC/OD (no idea how I'm going to get it back in....) to investigate.
Definitely appears to be coming out around the bearing retainer. The bearing retainer has a paper gasket with copper sealant on either side. I used Permatex "Right Stuff" on the trans to bellhousing surface with no gasket. To date, I've always found "Right Stuff" to be pretty much 100% successful. This could be the incident that ends the streak...
This is my third trans rebuild and I've never had one leak this bad. I may try a sealed bearing but I fear something else is going on because I've used open bearings in the past without any real problems. Seeping I can live with. Gushing I cannot.
Anybody see anything in these pics that jumps out at them as blatantly wrong? I took the pics as soon as I disassembled each piece and did not wipe anything off as I was hoping to capture the smoking (or dripping....) gun. It never ends does it? LOL.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/1949%20Willys%20CJ3A%2031149/20160410_195158_zps3rogkfur.jpg)
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/1949%20Willys%20CJ3A%2031149/20160410_195204_zpsigf9s9nm.jpg)
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/1949%20Willys%20CJ3A%2031149/20160410_195219_zpsuibfq54d.jpg)
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/1949%20Willys%20CJ3A%2031149/20160410_195523_zpscyrnt0mj.jpg)
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/1949%20Willys%20CJ3A%2031149/20160410_195529_zps6k2cchtb.jpg)
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/1949%20Willys%20CJ3A%2031149/20160410_200136_zpszdoz3yho.jpg)
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/1949%20Willys%20CJ3A%2031149/20160410_200140_zpshtcvy2ug.jpg)
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/1949%20Willys%20CJ3A%2031149/20160410_195543_zpsi0ikaxkn.jpg)
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/1949%20Willys%20CJ3A%2031149/20160410_200144_zpsyeuqd22u.jpg)
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Transmission overfull?
Is the drain back hole open?
Is that oil in the upper collector bolt hole?
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Transmission overfull?
Is the drain back hole open?
Is that oil in the upper collector bolt hole?
Transmission definitely not overfull ( I was really hoping it was but I crossed that off the list prior to pulling the transmission).
I will confirm the back drain hole is open. I have not checked that yet but I believe it is.
And yes, that does appear to be oil in the collector bolt hole. I'm going to clean up all the threads again on those bolts and holes, install a gasket that covers the full face of the trans and goes under the bearing retainer, and use Indian Head Shellac this time.
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Sounds like a good plan to me.
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Ryan ..... I had s similar leak in my transmission.� I was only using the paper gasket and it was leaking from the narrow spot next to the oil return hole.�
It is hard to tell from the pictures, but the dark portion of the gasket makes it appear that the drain hole in the cover was on the top verses the bottom.� If so, oil would collect and run out the nose.�
I have also heard of good results with the "Right Stuff" so I sealed the nose piece with Right Stuff and without the paper gasket.� The engine is still out so I cannot report success yet.
I have a question on the transmission end of the throw out spring.� I could not figure out what end there was when I took it apart so I fabricated a clip and put it under the nose bolt.
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Jim - That dark spot on the gasket is from the oil collector bolt, not the drain hole. I thought the same thing as you when I first looked at that pic last night but I did confirm I had it on correctly.
And I'm not sure I understand your question about the spring. Do you want to see a pic of how it attaches?
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Ryan ... Yes, I would like to see a picture of how the throw-out bearing spring is attached to the face of the transmission. It looks like yours uses something in the hole on that side similar to the hole on the other side for the clutch arm pivot pin.
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That part of my transmission is currently in pieces but this should show what you want to see
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/Misc%20Junk/20160411_201135_zpsbygtz7eg.jpg)
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Do you have the sealing washers under the three bearing retainer bolts?
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Do you have the sealing washers under the three bearing retainer bolts?
Yes. Sealing washers were used.
A new potential culprit has risen to the surface.
This is the same Jeep that I just had the "bad" ring gear on. During the troubleshooting of that mess I swapped flywheels and installed the same pilot bushing numerous times between flywheels. Probably a bad idea and I wouldn't have done it if I had a couple extra bushings on hand. It was a new bushing so the ID was okay but the OD made it a little looser than I would have liked when pressing it into the flywheel for the final time.
Could the bushing have wiggled free? Is there enough clearance on the shaft for the bushing to slide rearward towards the clutch and fall out of the flywheel completely, riding loose on the shaft? I'm not sure if there's enough room there for that to happen with everything assembled. If so, with potentially 60 or 70 miles of driving it like that have I destroyed the needle bearings in the trans?
I'm curious now if utter lack of patience to sit and wait for a new pilot bushing to arrive has resulted in the latest catastrophe.
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Ryan .... Thanks for the picture. I totally missed seeing that hole for the spring. I knew that the angle was wrong with my bracket but there did not seem to be another choice. As I tell friends working on cars, work with your eyes open.
Thanks.
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Ryan,
I don't think there would be enough room for the bushing to slide rearward. With a loose OD, it might spin a little.
Tim
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Could the case be cracked?
If it was out where water could have gotten in at one time it's a possibility...
Maybe you know of someone who could Magnaflux it?
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What should I use when I put this back together? The felt ring shown in the previous pics with no rubber gasket or this one:
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/Misc%20Junk/20160413_103840_zpshnf4outd.jpg)
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Probably won't make much difference. As we all know they aren't really much of a seal, it mostly depends on not being overloaded with oil for some other reason. Just be sure whatever you use isn't too tight.
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I think I found the culprit. Looks like I need to seek out a new snap ring. Hopefully I have an old one intact in the junk bin somewhere.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/1949%20Willys%20CJ3A%2031149/1_zpsjekfwrql.jpg)
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/1949%20Willys%20CJ3A%2031149/2_zpshouxe8xk.jpg)
Edit: I just scrounged up the old ring. Here's the difference in thickness.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z403/rmurdock2121/1949%20Willys%20CJ3A%2031149/20160414_210258_zpspyrqhk22_edit_1460682379856_zpskqdeufi6.jpg)
Installed the old ring and the bearing retainer fits much tighter. That had to be it. I can't decide if I want a happy face here or an angry one :) >:(
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Well at least you found the culprit...and you can expect little or no leakage now..
Nothing worse than looking for the source a problem but finding none....
And then just having to hope that somehow you fixed it....
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Nice find, hope it's the culprit.
Is that a POS overseas replacement bearing? How does the groove into the old bearing compare to the new? I'm just wondering if the new bearing will be clamped down or will there be slight in/out movement of the outer race.
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Wow Ryan, you found the needle in the haystack!
Just something to watch out for when rebuilding and I would have never thought to look at the snap ring.
Thanks for sharing -
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Well, son-of-a-gun. That would probably do it. Nice catch.
Tim
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Nice find, hope it's the culprit.�
Is that a POS overseas replacement bearing?� How does the groove into the old bearing compare to the new?� I'm just wondering if the new bearing will be clamped down or will there be slight in/out movement of the outer race.
I believe that was a Nachi bearing but I don't remember. I always make sure they are US or Japanese so I know it's not a crappy Chinese one. I also can't remember if the snap ring was part of the bearing or separate in the kit.
I didn't compare the grooves on the new and old bearings. The "old" snap ring I reused fit snugly in the groove of the new bearing. No in/out movement.
I just went for a 30 mile rip at times exceeding 60 mph. So far the bellhousing weep hole has not shed a single tear. Let's hope it stays that way or I'll be the one shedding tears.