My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: macrisel on January 15, 2015, 01:00:40 PM
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So after getting stranded two times last summer, I decided to re-route my fuel line. Both times, I would drive the jeep for about 30-40 minutes, park and turn the jeep off for 15-20 minutes, then hop back in and it would not start. Both times it was very HOT and very HUMID outside. While I'm not really convinced it was an issue of vapor lock, I moved my fuel line much farther away from the manifold to lessen the possibility. I also came across an old Carter fuel filter in the barn I wanted to add to the mix.
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/macrisel/F13CC958-69EF-4D96-A2AB-58EBE56E6F19_zpssr1hwquv.jpg)
Because of the extra length, the fuel line vibrates pretty bad at certain RPM's. I am planning on adding a brace coming off of the horn bracket to tie the fuel line down. Just for fun, I think I may also add three or four "calibrated" clothes pins to the line for car guys to laugh at :D
If I still have the starting issue, Scoutpilot is on standby for a carb rebuild!
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[size=12]The fuel line fitting and the tube itself will suffer severe vibration damage if you "tie it down" to anything on the fender. Engine vibration and torque induced twisting is why there is a rubber line going from the main fuel line which is attached to the frame, to the pump. Reorienting the pump top to a 90� angle, come off it with a fitting which will point the fuel line up and out at an angle sufficient to intersect a straight forward, level line from the the 90 on the filter. That's how I've run mine for years. No heat problems, no vibration problems. Just my .02. [/size][/b]
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Do you care to post a photo? I'm pretty sure I know what you are describing, but would like to double check.
The only reason I was going to tie the fuel line down was I afraid the vibrations might cause a fuel leak.
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[size=12]Sure. This configuration has served me well for years.[/size][/b]
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I think I have asked this before but have forgot, what's tethered to the end of the keeper chain?
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So after getting stranded two times last summer, I decided to re-route my fuel line.� Both times, I would drive the jeep for about 30-40 minutes, park and turn the jeep off for 15-20 minutes, then hop back in and it would not start.� Both times it was very HOT and very HUMID outside.� While I'm not really convinced it was an issue of vapor lock, I moved my fuel line much farther away from the manifold to lessen the possibility.� I also came across an old Carter fuel filter in the barn I wanted to add to the mix.
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/macrisel/F13CC958-69EF-4D96-A2AB-58EBE56E6F19_zpssr1hwquv.jpg)
Because of the extra length, the fuel line vibrates pretty bad at certain RPM's.� I am planning on adding a brace coming off of the horn bracket to tie the fuel line down.� Just for fun, I think I may also add three or four "calibrated" clothes pins to the line for car guys to laugh at :D
If I still have the starting issue, Scoutpilot is on standby for a carb rebuild!
If you support it from the fender I'd be concerned about the movement of the engine on it's rubber mounts vs the relatively stable fender....If you could support it from the engine that may be better.....
I had problems when I was running an inline filter but no trouble after the filter was removed....
Are you using ethanol fuel? I realize that you may not have a choice... I once had an MGB and a Ford F-250 that would vapor-lock on ethanol....one of the chains around here have always sold an ethanol mix...
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I think I have asked this before but have forgot, what's tethered to the end of the keeper chain?
Sorry. I thought I answered this yesterday. At the other end of the chain is the fuel pump manual priming lever. It sure makes it easier to test carbs.
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Are you using ethanol fuel? I realize that you may not have a choice... I once had an MGB and a Ford F-250 that would vapor-lock on ethanol....one of the chains around here have always sold an ethanol mix...
I am not running an ethanol fuel mix in the jeep any more (or any of my small engines for that matter...) A private gas station in town has 93 octane pure gas at one pump. He started carrying it after several of us car club guys along with small engine guys (lawn mowers, boaters, loggers) bugged him into keeping it.
I usually keep 10 gallons at the house and run it through all my ATV's, lawn mowers, motorcycles, chainsaws, etc....pretty much everything I have that runs off of carbs and sits for extended periods of time. While it does make the jeep easier to start when it has been sitting for while, the big difference I see is in the small motors. It seemed I was replacing a gas line or cleaning a carb every year on either the weedeater, chainsaws, leaf blower or something else when I was running E85. Since I made the switch late in 2013, no more rebuilds and the motors start MUCH easier. Made it much easier to justify the extra .12 cents per gallon for 93....
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Scout,
What is involved in unbolting the top of the fuel pump and rotating it around? As you can see, my fuel inlet is next to the outlet and it looks like yours is on opposite sides of each other.
Will it affect anything else by rotating the top around?
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Made it much easier to justify the extra .12 cents per gallon for 93....
We also have an independent station that sells non-ethanol. The fellow that runs it told me that he has to pay extra for fuel without the ethanol...go figure...
This is how I routed my fuel line, for what it's worth......I've not noticed any problems....
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We also have an independent station that sells non-ethanol. The fellow that runs it told me that he has to pay extra for fuel without the ethanol...go figure...
Your tax dollars at work.
Ethanol gas prices are subsidized by the US government.
Without the government price support, ethanol gas would be more expensive.
In addition to lower maintenance, non-ethanol also gives slightly better gas mileage.
I guess it's a case of principals over practicality.
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1955CJ5, that's an excellent example of what Macrisel can do without moving the top. Mac, I think you have your answer there.
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Hey Randy,
Where did you get the fitting between your Carter WO and the Carter filter?
Tim
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Hey Randy,
Where did you get the fitting between your Carter WO and the Carter filter?
Tim
I'm pretty sure I got the fitting here, scroll down....part # 646052
https://www.willysjeepparts.com/Fuel_Lines.htm
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Hey Randy,
Where did you get the fitting between your Carter WO and the Carter filter?
Tim
Tim. NAPA. (or any Good auto parts store) 1/8" X 1/8" nipple. In the Eaton Weatherhead Brass Drawers. I like the ones with the 7/16" hex in the middle.
Rick
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Thanks Fellas!
I have the tube similar to Marks above. I wanted to tighten things up a bit more.
Tim
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Bingo Randy! I like your fitting in the fuel pump better than mine and that should take 2-3" out my gas line. That will probably be enough to eliminate the vibration. Back to NAPA tomorrow.
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I wanted to follow up with you fellows. I found these fittings at Home Depot, of all places. $1.78 each. Watts brand. Made in the USA!
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/9e6791baa3946c5adafba19e117b2d59_zps855f9a2b.jpg)
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Well there you go, sometimes those hard to find Willys parts are not that hard to find!
It's good to know that the fellow I bought them from made at least a $5.72 profit on one fitting!
Thanks Tim...
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Thanks for the info Tim. I think I've been to every shop in the Greater-Bangor area looking for one of those...except Home Depot, of course.
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I was stumbling around HD for a tool and figured I'd take a peak down that isle. My wife had a hard time understanding why I was so excited about a goofy little brass fitting. :) I bought 3.
Tim
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MACRISEL, are you still experiencing hard to start after running for a while? I am experiencing a similar issue currently. Yesterday after I ran about 45 minutes and shut the engine off. I opened the hood and my glass bowl filter was only 1/2 full. I wonder if I have another minor issue???? My fuel line routing is similar to yours. I have insulated all the fuel lines from the pump to the gas tank.
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[size=12]Is your heat riser working correctly?[/size][/b]
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Tumbleweed,
Yes, I am still having the issue with my jeep being hard to start. With Scoutpilot's help, I have been working through a number of issues. This weekend, I just finished up installing heat sleeves over all my fuel line from the tank all the way to the pump and then up to the carb. I am planning on some test runs this week (low 90s here this week).
Scout,
Not sure if I mentioned this or not, but my heat riser plate was removed before I bought the jeep. The rod, spring and weight are all there, but the plate was drilled out and removed........long ago by the looks of it.
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[size=12]The lack of the plate is allowing more heat from the exhaust than you want to reach the carb. This makes the fuel in the carb bowl boil. I know it's a PIA, but you'll have to fix the heat riser. Sorry buddy. :'([/size][/b]
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Hey scoutpilot - you may be right about the heat riser. I will check the fuction of the riser tonight. The intake is new from Walks but that doesn't mean the riser is not getting stuck in the open position allowing heat to rise. Last night after driving around for 30 minutes I parked the jeep and noticed a gas smell. The fuel filter was only half full of gas and when I took the horn off the top of the carb., there was gas dripping out of the nozzle in the throat of the carb. I noticed that after a few minutes the gas level in the A/C fuel filter would fluctuate up and down and after about 30 minutes the glass bowl was full and the dripping stopped from the nozzle.
Does this sound like boiling? Also I have noticed that the carb, and horn gets pretty hot and I don 't think it should be that way.
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[size=12]Sounds exactly like fuel is boiling, developing excessive pressure which is forcing fuel past the metering rod.[/size][/b]
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I did a little memory exploring after our conversation Rick, I think that I have my heat riser in the wrong position! I can't wait until I get how to see if my memory serves me well. I'll take a picture and post.
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Hmmmm.....any other solutions besides rebuilding the heat riser? :-/
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[size=12]Well. You could weld it shut. BUT, you will encounter much longer warm-ups. It will take longer to evacuate the crankcase of moisture, volatiles and particles at start-up. It will take longer for the oil to warm up. You'll be using more gas as the mixture will need to stay richer longer. You'll be sitting longer waiting on that warm-up while the motor wears out a tad faster and your wallet empties a bit faster. That's my long view.[/size][/b]
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Update on Smokey!
Rick - You were spot on regarding the heat riser on my rig. I did not take a picture of the position since I already knew it was positioned wrong. I put the spring in the correct position, drove the Jeep for about an hour, parked it and voila no boiling of the gas issues!!!!!!!!! Man am I a happy camper - the carb was even cooler. The only thing a litle hot was the cross over tube and I expected that to be a little warm only because of the position and thin wall.
Thanks Rick...........
macrisal - I think it is really worth the effort to fix the HR and heating issue. You will not be dissapointed!
Rick, you are up really early!!!!
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[size=12]Every day! It was my great pleasure! Happy motoring![/size][/b]
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Concerning vapor lock. These fuel pumps suck liquid. When the gasoline flashes to vapor in the line coming to the fuel pump, the pump is starved for liquid, causing vapor lock. The pump will push vapor to the carb with liquid, but it will not suck vapor.
Rerouting the tank to pump away from heat and/or insulating it would reduce vapor lock. Also putting a pump next to and below the fuel tank pushes cool gasoline to the carb. My 2 cents
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Thanks 64CJ5, I have been thinking about puttining my spare electric fuel pump in line. Now I just need to find a place to hide the switch since I dont want to put another hole in the dash after my restoration.