My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: JerseyDave on April 28, 2015, 03:20:34 PM
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I just got the brake rebuild kit on the mail for a 51, and the brake shoes are way smaller than whats on there, some of the other parts dont look like theyre for the right year axle... (locking hubs?)
Im thinking the PO decided to put a different year front and rear axle in there and now Im finding out the hard way. Is there a way to identify what year axle Im dealing with? Serial number or something?
If I can figure out what year this is, then Ill just buy brake parts for that year axle and forget about it. I dont even know where id start looking for correct 51 front and rear axles, and Id probably get screwed again in the process.
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Are you sure the PO didn't just upgrade the brakes to 11 inch? I don't believe there would be any need to change out the axle's if he just put on larger brakes. My 11 inch brakes are from an early 70's CJ5. I think the backing plates swap out without too much effort.
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Oh I didnt know they could be upgraded from the smaller brakes, so there is hope that this wasnt a total hack job? Wouldn't the 11 inch brakes be sold / listed as a different year or model on most parts websites?
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An 11" brake upgrade is somewhat common. Remove your brake drum and post a photo of the guts. Folks here will be able to tell you what you have.
Also, post a photo of your front and rear differential covers. We can also confirm your axle type.
Tim
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These photos are a little bit too close, the sun is down and my camera doesnt do low / artificial light well, so Ill have to do a retake in the morning probably, but heres three photos that might do the trick.
Thanks for the help, I think I started throwing things prematurely lol.
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I see a 5 bolt hub. Perhaps a wide track CJ-7 axle. More photos would help.
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Ok just got in front of the computer, heres the additional photos. Thanks.
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Those are better photos.� I see a Dana 25 front axle, so you probably have a Dana 41 rear axle.
This means this is probably your typical 11" brake upgrade, which I understand to be a pretty straight forward bolt up.� �I haven't seen a lot of them, so I'm not real sure, but your set up looks like the brakes that would be found on the early 70s CJ5.
You should be able to confirm by studying photos and part numbers on most of the part supply house web sites.
Tim
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This means this is probably your typical 11" brake upgrade, which I understand to be a pretty straight forward bolt up. I haven't seen a lot of them, so I'm not real sure, but your set up looks like the brakes that would be found on the early 70s CJ5.
I agree. Does the drum diameter measure 11" ID?
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This means this is probably your typical 11" brake upgrade, which I understand to be a pretty straight forward bolt up.� �I haven't seen a lot of them, so I'm not real sure, but your set up looks like the brakes that would be found on the early 70s CJ5.
Does the drum diameter measure 11" ID?
Yes I just measured it and it is 11"
Thanks for the help, this has me a bit confused arent the later non-flatfender jeeps a wider wheel base? which would mean the wheels should jut way out?
This probably means I need to order '71 jeep brake parts/brake lines and see if they fit.
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I'm not sure what year they changed to 11" brakes. I'd try 1974.
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When I bought new shoes and drums and wheel cylindars, I just told Napa I had a '72 cj5 and with the largest engine which assured I got the 11 inch brakes.� �They looked just like Dave's shown above and were a perfect fit.� BTW, Napa is the only store I found that offered the riveted shoes, everybody else had the bonded shoes.� Doubt it makes a difference, but I believe the OE shoes would have been riveted.�
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[size=12]JerseyDave said..."Thanks for the help, this has me a bit confused arent the later non-flatfender jeeps a wider wheel base? which would mean the wheels should jut way out?"[/size]
The short answer...No, your axle will not jut out more.
The axle itself would determine this. As mentioned above, you appear to have the early version of the CJ3A axles. (Dana 25 on the front, which means you probably have the Dana 41 on the rear.) Later CJ3A axles would be the Dana 27 and Dana 44, but these are dimensionally the same as the 25 and 41.
Your 11" upgrade would normally include all the brake components starting with the brake backing plate, and then working outward, but the axle would stay the same.
Hope this helps.
Tim
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Later CJ3A axles would be the Dana 27
Tim - I thought the Dana 27 didn't show up until much later. Where did you find them on a 3A? I hardly dare doubt the Hawk-wisdom but I'm curious here.
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Ryan, now you have me questioning myself. Isn't the axle set on your M38 a 27 and 44 combination?
Tim
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You're right.� I think a made an assumption that the 27 arrived on the scene the same time the 44 shows up.
Man I hate when assumptions are made...especially by yours truly.
That said, Jersey may have a 41 or 44.
Tim
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M38's have a 25 and a 44 which is why I questioned it in the first place. I'm not even really sure what the true difference is between a 25 and 27 is anyways. Axles are a little thicker on the 27 maybe? I know the differentials are not interchangeable but again I'm not really sure why.
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I replaced the spider gears in my 25. Walck's sells this kit as interchangeable between the 25 and 27. I wonder if the inner axle shafts are better, or the ring and pinion has changed on the 27.
There are so many other fun things I would rather do, but I guess it's time for a little axle research. :P
Tim