My Willys 3A and 3B Community
3A, 3B, DJ Technical Knowledge Base => "Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations => Topic started by: Tumbleweed on December 02, 2015, 11:22:44 AM
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Just saw where Ebay has a 13 pc. top bow set for $115.20. This comes un-painted, would make a great stocking stuffer!
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It's not fair to post a killer deal without a "link" to it!! ;)
Original 3A style?
Tim
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Thanks Tim for keeping me honest. My brain just has not engaged into 4WD today!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Bow-Assembly-49-53-Willys-CJ3A
$115.20
Hope this works!
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Woooo Hooooooo!!!!!
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OMIX-ADA product....hum...I wonder if it's good as Carl Walck one's for 295$.
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OMIX-ADA product....hum...I wonder if it's good as Carl Walck one's for 295$.
I almost bought this Omix set today (Thanks for the tip Tumbleweed) but then decided not to. I'm curious why Walck's went through the trouble of creating their own set for twice the price if they didn't somehow seriously improve on the Omix ones. Unless Omix released theirs after Walck's was already making them?
Anyone ever compare the two?
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I bought Walck's set..
The only omix parts I bought that I'm aware of were the tool box and the rear seat frame.....neither were very well made..
Remember that rear seat frame full of water?
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I did have some reservations as well but if they are not good quality I will return them. I will check the wall thickness and fit as soon as I get them. I will report on my findings to see if they are in line with Walks.
One thing they lack is they are not painted.
I'll keep you all posted.
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They are probably fine...and you can't beat the price!
There is no stress to speak of on the top bows and you sometimes need to tweak them a little anyway...
I think the bows from Walcks either only had primer or some OD-like paint on them...it scratched off pretty easily...
I got door frames from Beachwood and though they were powder coated that too scratched off pretty easily...
It gave them that "authentic" look!!
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I hope so. I did have an issue with my rear seat as well. I got my estimate from Beachwood today on a 6 pc. Top. I guess I better start socking away some bucks. About $1200.00 or so.
I wish I was born rich instead of good looking![ch128515]
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Can't compare the stresses put on a seat frame to those put on a set of bows George. Horses to Mules. Keep us in the loop.
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Will do - I get the set on Monday so I am anxious to see how they look. I'll be posting my findings on Tuesday AM!
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Thanks for pulling the trigger. I like it when someone else is the Ginny Pig. ;D
I'm looking forward to your feedback George.
Tim
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Update - UPS sent my bows to somewhere in PA! Now the bows are due to arrive 12-14-15.
Already starting off on the wrong foot! I'm getting worried...........
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Well I hope you get your bows soon...
Understandable how they could mix up Pennsylvania and Texas, as they have similar spelling... :D
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I'm on pins and needles here. :) Did you get them?
Tim
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I'm on pins and needles here. :)� Did you get them?
Tim
Ya George, what gives???? :-?
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Which Texas did they send them to this time? :D
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Hey gang,
I have been doing some heavy travel lately so my apologies. I did get my bows finally and I will post some pictures in this message. Upon receipt I thought that the box looked a bit strange since it had a pretty good bend on one end. Now I was worried..... Opened up the box and I was very relieved that there was no damage.
The 13 parts were all individually wrapped with bubble wrap � The main bow set as I will call it was a perfect fit. The tubing wall thickness as near as I can measure was around .06�. The steel rods were all .375� diameter and very well stamped on the ends. The bow set was primed with black paint and will require sanding and final paint or powder coat. Overall I am very pleased with how strong the bows appear to be made. They carry a 5 year warranty so I�ll keep my receipt! I did not get instructions on the assembly and I am a little puzzled about 2 or 3 of the parts and how they are assembled.
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I did not get a picture of the entire set but I will get a shot of it tonight.
Overall I give MDJ an 9 out of 10.
The reason for the -1 was that the parts appear to have been wrapped while the primer was still a little tacky.
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They look great!
You have the front main bows vertical tubes in the rear sockets and vice versa, but the top cross tubes are in the correct location, that center tab on the front cross tube goes to the windshield rod as you have it now.......The little tabs on the front of the vertical bows are for the door top frame rods that attach to the windshield...
You will figure it out...sort of an MD Juan puzzle!
My seat frame had also been wrapped while the paint was still wet...looked like it had been attacked by an octopus!
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Yep sure did. Just found a problem tonight. My rear cross bow is too long and my side bars that connect the rear corners to the middle post are too long. I'm going to try and mess with the fit to see if I am doing something Wong!
Can you take a close up picture of the windshield rod to center bow?
Thanks.
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I hope this helps....the jeep is in the storage unit and the top is in a box...but maybe this will do?
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Thanks this gives me some idea of the fit.
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I thought that I would post some pictures of the bow parts that I think are too long. I guess for the price I paid I will just have to make some modifications to the length.
The 26 1/8" measurement is from the center bow to the rear bow. My rear support bars (2) are about 31 1/2" long
My rear cross bow top is about 50 1/4". I thing that this is about 3" longer than it should be. The top bow slides into each upright tube just fine and stops at the pins located inside each upright tube. I just think its too long....
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I am at work so I can't help with the measurements. Your second picture is kind of hard to distinguish which part you are holding up, but there should be two rods that fit into holes on the rearward side of the front uprights and the front side of the rear uprights. There should be a rod that attaches to the front windshield via a threaded end and bolts to the front side of the front uprights. If you look under Body and Trim second page all the way at the end there is a right up on how to install a top. The write included modifications for 2A bows to fit a 3A but the first picture shows the bows and supports in the correct location.
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There should be 7 rods. Two straight rods without bends that fit in between the front bow and the rear. They just slip into the holes..
Two more straight rods, with a flat part on one end, but shorter. These bolt in the body in two holes in the rear part of the door opening, and then fit into the small bracket on the side windshield to front bow rod.
There is the center rod.
Then there is a rod on each side above the door openings. This rod should be threaded on one end, have a 90� bend on the other, and a bracket about 6" forward of the 90� to hold the rod where the door latches.
This is a picture of the door frame bow-to-windshield rod where it attaches to the upper drivers side windshield..
Don't cut anything yet! I'll go measure my top rods and see what is needed...
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10-4
I can wait and thanks for the detaild pictures. The rod that fits into the windshield on the set that I received does not have the threaded ends. Mine just had flat land areas with a hole about 1/4". I may have to do a modification like garage gnome did on his set.
I'll wait to hear back from you though.
Attached is a picture of the rod that connects the center bow to the windshield,
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I hope this makes sense.....
The first picture shows the length of the top tube that fits between the vertical tubes.....your tube might be a CJ-5 tube as they are longer...I'll check that too...
The second pic shows the rod that attaches to the windshield and forms the top of the door opening..both ends are shown...the third pic shows it's length.
In the fourth picture shows the straight rod length on the bottom, and on the top is the bracket for the vertical door frame rod..
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I do not have a rod with the flattened end as you show above.
The ones I have that are sorta like that are the vertical door frame rods which must be in the box with the doors so I need to look some more..
But they fasten to the tub here...
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Randy,
Wow thanks for all the good information - you really went above and beyond to help me out. Looks like I may have some minor modifications to do in order to make my bows fit.
Thanks again -
George
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In my haste to fill all the unwanted holes I welded these holes closed!
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Well George....
Here is my humble opinion..
I prefer driving the jeep either with no top (Don't we all!) or with what I think would be called a "trail top"...just a top with canvas corners in the back...
A full enclosure with doors is pretty confining but if it were really cold probably a good choice.
Side curtains are OK but they flap a lot..and they block your vision to the right
The rear removable panel keeps the exhaust out but it blocks your vision to the rear.......
So maybe you don't need those holes.....?
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I hope that MD Juan is looking at this forum.
His CJ 3A top bow set does not fit properly and the information that I received this morning from the seller indicates there is a measurement issue with this set.
Mr. Franks,
The tech just got back to me. This is what he said. What would you like to do?
"I went and measured our factory installed frame on a vehicle and our collection to compare to the reproduction and do notice some of the measurements differ and the threaded portion is not on the end of the front support. Given that the products we offer at the moment seem to have these discrepancies I can pick this up and refund for the bow assembly so I can notify QC of the issues and have them perform an investigation."
So now I do what garage gnome did and probably a few other members,
Cut, weld, grind and paint.
So for about 115.00 of the 13 piece set, I got 8 parts that work.
I am still happy with the rod diameter and cross bow tube thickness.
Gives me something to do in the garage tomorrow.
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TW Stumbling onto your treads both here and on the 2A page has me engaged in my project again. Do you know the correct distance from the inside top of the windshield to the back inside of the tub? The Besttop instructions say 66��. Jpet listed this at 67.13� for the 2a. I have a repo tub with a second hand windshield so I don't have much to go by.
I tried to attach a picture but for some reason can't.
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TW - Sorry to hear of your struggles with the Top Bow set. On behalf of the rest of us thanks for being the sacrificial guinea pig. I was one mouse-click away from owning a set of these myself. Looks like it'll be better to wait on them awhile.
and CJPilot - Good to see you back in action. I was wondering what happened to you. Did you get your tub fitment issues squared away? If I remember correctly you had some outlandish bad luck with your motor awhile back too.
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It was a sad day when manufacturing shifted QC to the buyer.
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Ryan � Yes back at it. I'm trying to get to where I can put some paint on it. I'm held up with fitting the windshield, doors and top bows. My windshield is not original to my jeep and with a repo tub I don't have much I can go by. Engine runs surprisingly good after I found the crack in the intake manifold.
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Well, George, that bites!
Did it sound like they would address the mistakes? If not, can you keep track of the modifications you're forced to do? It may be helpful to the 3A folks.
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Hello out there.
CJ Pilot it is good to hear from you again. JPet sent me the dimensions from his CJ2A as well. I can go measure from the front windshield to the rear and see what I can come up with. When I was adjusting my windshield the only thing I was looking for at the time was to make sure that when it was in the down position it did not rub on the hood. I don't know if that's the correct way to adjust but it worked okay for me.
Once I assembled (after modification)the top bow set I was surprised at how good everything fit. I think my windshield had a slight twist as the right side was about 1/2" further back than the left side. Once I adjusted the screws on the top side supports (this would be the threaded bars 2 ea.) it all came together.
Tim, Rick, the modification was really not that bad. I had to modify 5 parts and it took me about 6 - 7 hours to cut,weld, grind, and prime. For the price $115.00 I think it will work out just fine. I'm really not a cheap skate but I believe that sometimes you can find a bargain. I don't think I would order doors from Omix / MDJ. Probably go with Beachwood on this as well as the top. They really did a great job on my seats.
I'm rethinking a full top since it never really gets too cold. Thanks Randy for the suggestion. And again I'll be saving money with a summer top. I will spend the extra money on a trailer! :)
I will post the modifications with pictures so FBB,s (Future Bow Buyers) will have an idea of the steps involved.
Wishing you all a safe and wonderful 2016
George.......
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Had to cut the rear top bow down to 47 1/2" and matched the length to the front cross bow. Prior to welding the rear cross bow I inserted a 2" long steel rod that I had to give support to the new weld. You can see a little hump in my weld but I am okay with it.
On the rear side curtain rods I had to cut 5" out of each rod and weld back together.
The side supports both driver and passenger I had to cut off the flat taps and weld a threaded rod to fit the windshield. (Lesson from garage gnome. - thanks)
I think everything is in place but feel free to comment. Since I will not be adding doors I think I can just leave the vertical door rods off at this time.
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TW� �Stumbling onto your treads both here and on the 2A page has me engaged in my project again. Do you know the correct distance from the inside top of the windshield to the back inside of the tub?� The Besttop instructions say 66��.� �Jpet listed this at 67.13� for the 2a. I have a repo tub with a second hand windshield so I don't have much to go by.
I tried to attach a picture but for some reason can't.
CJPilot
I would go with 66 1/2. In my pictures attached you will see the right side is about 66.250 and the left side is about 66.75"
Hope this helps.
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Just noticed the distortion of my iPad pictures.
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Thanks for the info T weed. The Besttop instructions say 66.5" inside of the windshield to inside of the back of the jeep. If I'm looking the pictures correct yours are shorter than that. Going with your advice I'm going to adjust mine to 66.5"
The top bows I bought from Walck's are different. The rear side curtain rods are straight and engage a hole in each upright tube. Your setup looks more ridged.
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Hi All,
Sorry to be late to the party.� I skimmed through the thread but forgive me if I'm posting something that's already been said here or on the 2A page.
The correct measurement for a 3A from inside of the windshield (very top center), to the inside of the tub is 66.7 .....
(http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq276/jpetrowich/Canvas%20and%20Straps/Screen%20Shot%202016-01-01%20at%209.56.55%20AM.png) (http://s455.photobucket.com/user/jpetrowich/media/Canvas%20and%20Straps/Screen%20Shot%202016-01-01%20at%209.56.55%20AM.png.html)
.... this is measured from the very top center of the windshield which is its highest point.� The correct tilt of the windshield is supposed to be 16 degrees.� (not 15).� All these dimensions come from original Willys documentation and drawings I have had access to and I have confirmed them against an M38.
IMO, $295 for a set of bows from Walcks is a very good deal.� When I was making top bows, I would not have been able to make a full set of bows, rod hardware and everything for $135.� I said this on the 2A page but I saw a set of MDJuan bows at the 2013 Spring Reunion.� They could not be assembled and it was clear that the engineer did not know how to assemble them.� The set I saw had the door handle assembly for the drivers side welded to the vertical door rod for the passenger side and vise versa.� A 3A set would not have the door handles on the vertical rods so I guess that's not an issue.� I spoke with Rommel Juan and the engineer.� I explained the errors and how to fix them.� I even provide a drawing.� I don't mean to flame MDJuan because i know Rommel and in the past he has been open to forum members for help but this was 2-1/2 years ago so it's actually a little disappointing that these bows are still being sold so much later.� I'd ask how old the stock is.
canopy:
I'd agree with 1955CJ-5 that a 2 piece canopy with the open back arch is all you need for any weather/sun conditions other than winter.� Some of you guys know that I drive my flattys year round with canvas tops.� I have driven in many a rain fall with a simple 2 piece top.� Leave the rear panel out so that it does not trap wind.� You won't get wet unless the rain is coming sideways.� If you don't want to get wet at all, a set of half doors would be nice.
HTH
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Jpet� Thank you for the drawing.� �Just to clarify. Measuring from the top center of the windshield back you end up at the tailgate cut out. So I used a straight edge placed on the back of my tub to establish the �inside of tub�.� Is that the correct way to do it?
It is common for the windshield to be bent OOF and if measuring from the center line� one can�t determine which side is correct.� �Do your drawings show what the windshield to the tub measurement should be on the sides?� If not, I guess I could calculate it.
I drew it up and came out with 66.510" same as the Besttop instructions. I'm so happy to have something concrete to go by
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.......Just to clarify. Measuring from the top center of the windshield back you end up at the tailgate cut out. So I used a straight edge placed on the back of my tub to establish the �inside of tub�.� Is that the correct way to do it?
Yeppers.
It is common for the windshield to be bent ....
Absolutely.� It happens because the drivers and or passengers grab the windshield and pull on it to help themselves into the jeep.� the higher they grab the windshield the more stress they put on it.� I've seen it much worse on a 2A windshield than a 3A windshield.
Do your drawings show what the windshield to the tub measurement should be on the sides?�
Well the windshield drops approximately 3/8" where you would measure to the tub lip.� That would change the inside to inside dimension to 66.64 and that would put your dimension to within 1/8" of my data.� I'd say that's pretty good.� Just a minor change in the windshield to cowl gasket is significant.� For example, +/- 1/32" of your windshield gasket thickness exponentiate to +/- 1/8" at the top of the windshield.
I drew it up and came out with 66.510" same as the Besttop instructions.� I'm so happy to have something concrete to go by
I'd call it good.