My Willys 3A and 3B Community

Rambling, Malarky, Rants, Etc. => Willys photo and story threads... => Topic started by: athawk11 on January 30, 2013, 03:16:41 PM

Title: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: athawk11 on January 30, 2013, 03:16:41 PM: I've been looking for a 'Project'. ï¿½Yesterday, I found a pair of Willys Jeeps. ï¿½One is a 1946 2A. ï¿½The other is a PEC (Pretty Early) ;) 1949 3A. ï¿½Because this is the 3A page, I primarily want to share the 3A. ï¿½I will post the 2A stuff at the 2A page.

I just got them home last night. ï¿½It was darn cold here in Colorado, so I had no interest in digging too deep for serial #s, castings, etc. ï¿½It should be a bit warmer this weekend. ï¿½I'll post more information as I get it.

I'm not entirely sure why I got this 3A...other than it was a package deal. ï¿½The PO had the intention of combining them into one Willys. ï¿½The 2A may turn out to be too special to do this. ï¿½I'm currently calling the 3A, 'The White One'.

What I know: ï¿½1949 CJ3A #13655. ï¿½Still has a body tag. ï¿½It runs if you pour gas in the carb. ï¿½It does not stop (what's new). ï¿½It has a front PTO with the biggest PTO driven winch I've ever seen on the front of a Willys. It turns freely. ï¿½The tub is a disaster. ï¿½If it's not covered in bondo, it's had heavy plate steel patch welded. ï¿½

So...Will it be a Thrasher??? ï¿½ Will it be a keeper to eventually restore?? ï¿½Part it out?? ï¿½ I just don't know yet. ï¿½Stay tuned.

Tim

(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/20130129010.jpg)
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/20130129005.jpg)
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/20130129004.jpg)
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/20130129003.jpg)
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/20130129008.jpg)
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/20130129007.jpg)
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/20130129009.jpg)
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/20130129006.jpg)
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/20130129002.jpg)

ï¿½
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: Ryan_M on January 30, 2013, 04:19:01 PM: Very exciting stuff! Congrats on the arrival of your new "children". So when do you start the garage renovation/expansion project?
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: F Bill on January 30, 2013, 04:42:59 PM: I noticed it isn't a Willys, it is a BROWN! Love the winch.....and the general overall appearance of a real working jeep.

And by the way three jeeps may or may not actually count as a herd..... You still have a possibility of hiding three. It is when you have so many you cannot hide their existence that a true herd formation has been discovered.

Looking forward to hearing more.. What is special about the 2A?
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: garage gnome on January 30, 2013, 06:36:38 PM: From the looks of it and your post on the 2A page, you have enough stuff to build one pretty nice one there!
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: Bedrock on January 30, 2013, 06:39:15 PM: Way to go Tim. ï¿½These new additions should keep you occupied for a while. ï¿½We'll be looking forward to additional photos and updates......on a regular basis.

George
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: Bob W on January 30, 2013, 09:10:46 PM: Hi Tim,

I like your new PEC CJ-3A ;D Naturally I'd like to see more photos too. What is the body tag number? Can you see the original hood block holes on the inside of the hood? If so what is the spacing from the center seam? Does it have a Type 1A or 1B right front fender? See this page for the different fender types...
http://www.cj3a.info/tech/rfender.html
Too many questions?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: athawk11 on January 30, 2013, 09:12:53 PM: Hey guys. Thanks for taking a look. This is a true beater. It's been used and abused. I kind of like that about it.

Ryan, no garage expansion in the cards. I'm going to have to figure something out. Right now, I have to figure out how to convince the neighbors that I'm not opening up a new junk yard ;D

Bill, I'm not sure yet if the 2A is special beyond the frame and tub match. The engine might be original. It's got pretty solid sheet metal. As much as I like my first OD 3A, it represents probably 20 or 30 different Willys combined into one.

Has anyone ever seen a winch like this? Haven't had a chance to dig into it yet.

Tim
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: BMIC on January 31, 2013, 07:08:19 AM: Congrats Tim,
Your two new rescues will help all of us get through the rest of the winter. Pull up the chairs and grab a beer, this is going to be good reading.
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: Quebec Jeep on January 31, 2013, 08:35:18 AM: It already got a name, it's Brown!
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: athawk11 on January 31, 2013, 09:09:54 PM: Okay, ï¿½Some additional information. ï¿½The tub is shot. ï¿½Seriously. ï¿½There are so many holes in this thing, someone must have taken a shotgun to it. ï¿½The Tranny hump is broken into 3-4 pieces. ï¿½The floors have been patched, badly. ï¿½I crawled under to take a look. ï¿½The original steel just crumbles in my hand. ï¿½Bottom line, if I decide to keep this together, I'm in the market for a replacement tub. ï¿½Front sheet metal is in good condition.

Here are the numbers.

Serial: ï¿½ ï¿½ ï¿½13655
Body Tag: 13115
Engine: ï¿½ ï¿½ 3J 39316

After thumbing through Bob Westerman's book, this Willys was probably made in mid to late January 1949. ï¿½Only 3654 3As were made before this one. ï¿½The body tag is off by 540. ï¿½Bob mentions some reasons why this could have happened. ï¿½I wonder if this 540 makes sense based on the build date?

The engine is not original to this Willys, but it is a 3A engine.

Edit: I forgot to answer a couple more of Bob's questions...It has the Type A1 fender and the hood blocks are not equadistant from the center seam.

Tim

(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/20130131004_zpse9728463.jpg)

(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/20130131006_zpsbf183377.jpg)

(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/20130131001_zps1a6a8d22.jpg)
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: Ryan_M on January 31, 2013, 09:16:40 PM: How can you tell it's not the original engine? I know you mentioned it was red but didn't the number above the water pump boss get ground off on the red rebuilt/replacement motors?
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: athawk11 on January 31, 2013, 09:28:42 PM: That's a good question Ryan. ï¿½The engine is red. ï¿½Perhaps a reputable shop put the effort into restamping the boss. ï¿½Or maybe it didn't need to be resurfaced when rebuilt. ï¿½Or maybe a PO liked red engines. ï¿½I wonder if Bob, Larry, Carl, Gun....someone knows if the font in the photo above looks original??? ï¿½

The '3' in front of the 'J' looks different than the '3s' in the Serial#. Also, the '1' is pretty unique.
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: F Bill on January 31, 2013, 09:37:45 PM: Quote
That's a good question Ryan. ï¿½The engine is red. ï¿½Perhaps a reputable shop put the effort into restamping the boss. ï¿½Or maybe it didn't need to be resurfaced when rebuilt. ï¿½Or maybe a PO liked red engines. ï¿½I wonder if Bob, Larry, Carl, Gun....someone knows if the font in the photo above looks original??? ï¿½

The '3' in front of the 'J' looks different than the '3s' in the Serial#. ï¿½Also, the '1' is pretty unique.

At first glance it looks right to me. Very consistent with other stamps I have seen, but I haven't seen as many as Bob has..I also noticed the different leading 3.. I wonder if perhaps the engines were all stamped 3J and then later in the process the actual serial number was added by a worker with a different set of stamps.
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: Bob W on January 31, 2013, 09:45:28 PM: Thanks Tim for answering the questions and posting more photos!!!!!!!!!!!

The engine serial number font looks original. It is unlikely that engine was originally installed in that Jeep because the skew is so far off.

There seems to be an internet legend that red engines are rebuilt. Anyone can paint an engine red without doing anything else. I think this legend came from the fact that new Willys replacement engines were red. This red may have been the sealer that was applied to the castings and so these new engines were actually unpainted. The red sealer can be seen on many original engines where the black top coat paint is peeling off. I have never seen any documentation that indicates Willys did any rebuilding of engines although many aftermarket companies did.
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: athawk11 on January 31, 2013, 11:03:38 PM: Thanks Bill. Thanks Bob. I fell into that legend. I thought everything on the internet had to be the truth. ;) ;) ;)

How about the body tag scew? 540 sound about right for the build date?

Tim
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: Bob W on February 01, 2013, 06:08:09 AM: The body serial number and vehicle serial number skew fits right in to the original pattern.
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: athawk11 on February 04, 2013, 09:01:30 PM: Thanks Bob.

Not much progress on this 3A. ï¿½As mentioned, it runs when fuel is poured into the carb. ï¿½The existing tank is home made. ï¿½PO added a home made tank under the passenger seat also. ï¿½He attached a shut off valve to the fuel line that would allow him to change fuel tanks. ï¿½This is mounted under the Willys, so...he cut a hole through the tub so he could access the valve :-? :-? :-?.

I determined the fuel pump is not working, and I don't trust the home made fuel tank, so I bought a new fuel pump (arrived today) and I'm working on repairing my old fuel tank from my other 49 3A. ï¿½My plan is to install the repaired tank, fuel pump, and replace the fuel lines. I want to see if the tranny and TC work, among other things. ï¿½I'm going to call a local Jeep hoarder ï¿½(Wally) and see if he has a spare 3A tub that he might be willing to part with. ï¿½

Oh, by the way, has anyone ever seen a winch like this? ï¿½Very few markings. ï¿½I posted this inquiry at WillysMJeeps... ï¿½

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=7645

Stay tuned.

Tim
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: Bob W on February 05, 2013, 05:54:31 AM: The winch looks like it was originally bed mounted for a tow truck.
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: athawk11 on February 21, 2013, 12:11:46 PM: Bob,

Sounds like you're right again. What's new.

It's not likey to go back on the 3A. There are some odd modifications under the Willys that I don't plan on trying to duplicate.

By chance, would you have any photos that might show how this would have been set up on a tow truck?

Tim
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: Bob W on February 21, 2013, 07:49:58 PM: Sorry, I don't have any photos. Most 70s era tow trucks were set up like that.
Title: Re: I Have a Herd!!
Post by: athawk11 on February 22, 2013, 11:31:24 PM: Thanks anyway Bob.

Tim