My Willys 3A and 3B Community
Rambling, Malarky, Rants, Etc. => Rambling, Malarky, Rants, Etc... => Topic started by: Carls_jeep on January 10, 2012, 05:18:38 PM
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Here's a good example of why you should have your tires balanced.
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/yeathatshim/P1100001.jpg)
I bought four new tires and tubes and two of them needed a lot of weights to make them balanced. If two out of balance tires such as these are on the front end it could easily cause a loose front end to have the weath dobble, I mean, the death wobble.
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That's a good looking tire, Carl. Can I ask what brand, model, and size they are?
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It's a 6.00x16 and I got four of them and tubes from Wallace Wade Specialty Tires.
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I'm not going to get my tires balanced, life doesn't ruin itself you know.
-Jesse
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Looks like my rims - ;D -I was surprised to see that much weight on my first set of tires for my 53 wagon but it sure helps with the ride to have them running true.
BTW - Wallace Wades shop is right around the corner from my office in Dallas. Pretty cool place for a tire depot! I'll be getting my new set of NDT from him as well on my CJ. I am going with the 7.00-16.
George
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Static or dynamic balance?
Larry
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I'm betting Carl had them dynamic balanced (seeing the one small weight separated a bit from the bigger weights). When I was young I worked in a service station where we mounted and balanced tires. We only had a static bubble balancer and I never saw weights separated till using a dynamic balancer much later. However, I must say that you could really get a tire well balanced if you took your time and worked at it till you got the bubble exactly centered. My fussiest customer was my dad.
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Calvin, the correct way to static (bubble) balance is with the use of 4 equal weights spaced, in pairs, about 1/4 of the way around the wheel apart to start. You then move the pairs around until the wheel balances. You may have to swap the 4 weights for a set of heavier or lighter ones depending on how far apart they need to be to balance the bubble, always trying to maintain a distance of about 1/4 of the wheel or a little less. When the wheel balances you mark the tread with chalk, flip the wheel over and tap on one weight at each mark. You then set the wheel back on the balancer and set the remaining 2 weights back on the rim near the chalk marks. Move them a bit as needed to achieve final balance and tap them in place. In a static balance situation there should always be 4 weights of equal weight, 2 per side, and equally spaced apart, never together. That's the only way to acheive a static balance without disrupting the dynamic balance any more than it already is. Dynamic balance is always preferred.
Carl, can you imagine the death wobble that baby would have created?
Larry
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Discount tire in Bedford did mine - dynamic -
George
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They were dynamic balanced. When I saw those weights, which were more than on any of the other three tires, I knew how bad that would have been on a front wheel without them. Even with a tight front end it could have still caused a wobble since nothing is as firm as a rear fixed axle. I do have it on the rear axle.
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No doubt that balancing is the way to go, but...do you really feel it makes much difference on a vehicle that never sees over 30-35 mph? Don't get me wrong, I would never suggest not balancing, but am wondering if we would really notice if they weren't balanced and if it could set-up the dreaded "death wobble". It would be an interesting experiment to drive "unbalanced" and to then drive "balanced" to see what kind of difference there is at, say 35 mph.
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I never really thought about tire RPM before this thread and was surprised by how fast it actually is. A standard 16x6 NDT tired is about 27.75" in diameter which gives it a cirumference of about 87.162". At 35 MPH this tire will travel 3080' which would be about 424 RPM or about 7 revolutions per second. The need for accurate ballancing becomes pretty clear when you look at it from this perspective.
Math was never really my strong point so if anyone wants to dispute these numbers please feel free to do so. I will not be the least offended. Carl has already had to correct me once today for not reading a post all the way through.
:)
Matt
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I think your math is solid, the numbers don't lie. Seven revolutions per sec...who'd a thunk it?
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The older dynamic balancers that spun them up on the car went pretty fast. I can remeber that if I didn't dig all the rocks out of the tread it may throw them out at me. The later ones that you mounted the tire and rim on still spun them fairly fast but the newer balancers don't spin up very fast at all. In fact the first time I saw one in action I didn't think it would do a good job but it did.
Yes, a tire out of balance as much as that tire on a loose front end would probably wobble so much it may be very dangerous.
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The old dynamic "spark" balancers were capable of 100mph. The newer ones run at about 55mph. I always balanced tires at 75mph in the old days.
Larry
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Calvin, the correct way to static (bubble) balance is with the use of 4 equal weights spaced, in pairs, about 1/4 of the way around the wheel apart to start. You then move the pairs around until the wheel balances. You may have to swap the 4 weights for a set of heavier or lighter ones depending on how far apart they need to be to balance the bubble, always trying to maintain a distance of about 1/4 of the wheel or a little less. When the wheel balances... Larry
Larry,Your explanation of the correct way to static balance is very much appreciated. I wish I would have known it 51 years ago when I was balancing tires almost daily. I wish my boss would have know it. He is the one who taught me to do it "just like he did". And what 16-year old kid is going to question a wise old salt of 35? Besides, he owned and maintained a fine old Willys Jeep so in my eyes he could do no wrong.
I'm sure he never read the instructions that came with the balancer. We did share the weights, front and back side, but now the thought of spreading them about 25% of the circumference really "feels" right to me. Though I'll probably never see a bubble balancer again, just like on the old forum where, after I told of being thrown a time or two when hand cranking my old CJ-2A as a kid, you educated me about the proper way to hold the crank, it is fun to learn even now. And, no, I'll probably never own a Jeep hand crank again, either. I love it, even as my ignorance surfaces as it has from time to time on this site. It's all fun.
I'm glad to see you back on the 3A Page. I, for one, truly appreciate your posts and responses and all the experience and resources you provide.
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I even balance the tires on my trailers, its pretty amazing when you pull a boat or a utility trailer 100 miles just how much vibration has an affect on the comfort of the driver, you don't notice it at first, but wow, when I finally did it the first time I was amazed. Now I balance everthing except the lawn mower. I did balance the NDTs on my 3A when I first got it, took 7 ounces on one tire to make it right. And I did notice the difference driving it at 35 mph.