My Willys 3A and 3B Community
Your Projects => Your CJ-3A Project => Topic started by: Joe Loehle on August 06, 2019, 09:55:36 PM
-
The CJ3A arrived a couple of weeks ago now from Minnesota. Trucked down from my Father-in-Law. Here it is in all its glory.
I've been really inspired by 1955-CJ5's restoration project and I find myself in a similar boat with less work to do then him, but also less skill! I have a LOT to learn so feel free to tell me if I am doing something dumb.
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_5017.jpg )
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_4403.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_1243.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_3780.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_4680.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_3445.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_2866.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_3749.jpg)
Not too bad looking, but lots of weird stuff, too. The paint is a brown color that looks in many places as if it was brushed on.
There is rust in the floor boards under the front seats. It is pretty bad and affects the channels underneath and even some mounting points to the tub. There are riveted-in patch panels on top, but you can see it from the bottom.
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_0951.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_0903.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_2574.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_4840.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_6855.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_7473.jpg)
There are lots of non-factory things on there, too.
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_0044.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_5218.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_4422.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_5361.jpg)
The spare tire mount was in the wrong place. With no backing it was ripping the sheet metal.
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_7275.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_8112.jpg)
Lots of weird patches in the sheet metal.
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_2773.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_4310.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_2350.jpg)
The engine looks like this.
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_6206.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_8444.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_9688.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_5459.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_2428.jpg)
Here is the original paint color which I assume is Potomac Gray. It is under where the regulator used to be, I believe.
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_1290.jpg)
My plan is a full restoration to the level that I can. It is in good running condition. Starts fairly easily. Stopping is not as good. It stops, but not very quickly. I'll start there on the next post.
Thanks,
Joe
-
Why are all the photos upside down?
Edit: Fixed it.
-
That happens with phone pics...sorry I don't know how to fix it....
But great pictures and the jeep looks to be in good condition...!
Excellent starting point...!
-
You are going to love it! Have fun and enjoy yourself with the new project. I'm on the bottom of the state if you ever get over this way
-
Do you have a serial number?� It looks like the plate is missing.� It should be fairly low, it has a bottom mount radiator (the top radiator braces tells that) as the early 3As.� With that engine number, probably not the original. The paint looks about the same as mine, which I am pretty sure is Pickett gray.� It is supposed to be Potomac gray buy I think some of the early 3As got Pickett.� Oh yeah you need a windshield vent stop, PM me when you want one.� Looks goos :)
-
Stony,
The serial tag is gone. But it has titles that have been passed down with a serial of 3J125XX.
What time period would the engine be?
I wondered about the different Grays. I've always thought the Picket Gray looked way darker than this. The Potomac Gray looks maybe a bit lighter?
I may have to buy a chip sheet to figure it out.
I do need that piece!
67galaxie,
I go to Rifle Matches on the western side of the state. I either go through Tifton and Albany or the southern route through Valdosta. I won't be taking the CJ though!
Joe
PS Please tell me anything else you see on this that is good/bad/weird/etc.
-
The 3J125XX number on your title was likely the original Engine Serial Number. Some states used this number to title vehicles. In your case, this is exactly why that approach was flawed. One engine swap and the title process becomes more difficult. (I would get a new data plate and have it stamped with the number that matches the title.)
The title number (original engine number which is now gone) on your 3A is early, so a 1949. Another indication is it also has an earlier style passenger front fender.
Without the original data plate, it will be nearly impossible to know its exact original serial number.
The J prefix on your existing engine suggests it was originally installed in a CJ2A.
Aside from some sloppy welds, it's a cool old 3A. Congratulations!
-
athawk11,
Thanks for the info. I wondered about that engine #, but thought putting an older engine in wouldn't make sense.
Is there anything else about the engine other than the # on it that would make it not the right type for this year?
Joe
-
Hi Joe,
Besides some more modern bolt-ons, the engine is precisely what you hope for when you open the hood for the first time.
Don't get too hung up on that. (non-original engine to this Willys) If we did a pole here, I would bet that 65-75% of the represented 3As don't have their original engine. I have 2-3As and 1-2A. None have their original engine.
-
Just out of curiosity, if it is an early 3A and has the left-over paint color... Would they ever use one of the older engines? The only difference is the engine number?
Joe
-
Old red paint on an engine usually means it was a rebuild. No telling what year it is.
-
Willys may have done things like this during the transition from the 2A to the 3A on certain components, but they were pretty specific in their practices with the engines.
They were consistently stamped with the leading prefix (J, 3J, 4T, 4LR, MC, etc) to which style vehicle they were going to be put in. The number portion of the serial # stayed very sequential too. In other words, the smaller the number, the earlier the engine.
If there was a �J� engine installed in a 3A during the change from CJ2A to CJ3A, then I would expect the digital part of the serial number to be much higher than the number is on your engine. Something like �J23XXXX�
Based on the data page at the 2A Forum, your engine was most likely installed in a 1947 CJ2A. 2 Years earlier than the start of 3A production.
-
Thanks for the info. That all makes sense to me. Especially after looking at the Serial number numbering. I believe you are right about them grabbing the only number they could see.
My Father-in-law just told me: "I knew the engine had been overhauled and had a new water pump."
Joe
-
Looks great! Couple of comments, looks like it has been converted to 12v, it has the original CJ3A foot plunger starter. You have a resistor in the ignition circuit, and it looks to be properly bypassed from the starter (red wire from the starter to coil), so you have a 1.5 Ohm coil (needs resistor). Whoever did it , did it right. Have fun!
-
Terry,
I will certainly need to analyze that and learn more about what you just said!
Thanks for the info.
Joe
-
One thing that concerns me is the oil filter. It is not original. If it is a "full flow" filter it will starve the engine for oil. It needs to be a "partial flow" filter for these engines.
-
Well basically it works like this. You need about 3 Ohms of resistance in the ignition circuit to limit the current flow so the coil doesn�t get too hot with the 12 volt system. Two ways to do this, either an internal resister in the coil (3 Ohms total) or a 1.5 Ohm external resistor + a 1.5 Ohm coil (3.0 Ohms total). Problem was that when starting a cold engine the amperage draw by the starter dropped the battery voltage and gave a weaker spark with the 3 Ohm coil. To solve the problem they use your setup (and with a solenoid or starter relay) to bypass the resistor (giving 1.5 Ohms total) when the starter is turning, so the coil gets full battery voltage and gives you a hotter spark. As soon as you release the starter, the resistor kicks back in, and since the running engine will put out about 14 volts you have a plenty hot spark. That�s all there is to it LOL!
-
So what oil filter are people using for these?
Joe
-
This is the smaller of the canister type, which were original. It uses a Wix 51010 filter.
There were other canisters used that were larger, but they look similar.
You might be able to look up that spin on filter number and see if it is a partial flow. The filter assembly might have a number on it too....
Though not original, spin-on filters are easier to change.
-
I just went through the pictures again and realized that you have a rear seat! That is huge as they are scarce as hen's teeth...
I was going over the post to see if there was any mention of the almost inevitable "box of spare parts". The old oil filter may still be around...you never know...
My Model A Ford came with a box of parts....one of which was a rare and hard to find toilet seat hinge!
-
I have some extra windshield hold downs (don�t know real name), an extra center vent panel, and a bug screen.
You can also see in the first photo that I have an extra hood.
Digging into some interesting history right now too. Will post after the weekend about it.
Joe
-
So last week while I was looking over the body to see what kind of work I had to do, I noticed something on the tailgate. With the right light you could see that it used to say something on the back. It looked like painted words that were then painted over with this brown paint.
Here are a couple of photos. I also took one of the photos and increased the contrast and clarity to see it a little better.
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/faustfield-1.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/faustfield-2.jpg)
(http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/faustfield-3.jpg)
It looked to me like "?AUSTFIELD" or possibly 2 words "?AUST FIELD" with "NEW BRAUNFELS" under it.
I started looking into New Braunfels, Texas and using BAUSTFIELD, CAUSTFIELD, DAUSTFIELD... until I got FAUSTFIELD.
Faust is a big name in New Braunfels. Owners of industry, etc there. I thought maybe it was a Factory or Farm Jeep for one of their Textile mills or something.
I contacted their Chamber of Commerce who set me up with a local Doctor in town who was head of the local Car Club. I also contacted the local museum there. They both came to the same conclusion. Joseph Faust was a mayor of New Braunfels and also a pilot. There was a Faust Air Field at one point in the 50s and 60s.
The Doctor is trying to contact the son of Joe Faust who is still in the area. Who knows what he will remember about an old jeep at the air field.
Anyway, a cool piece of history and another very logical use of a CJ3A for the time.
Joe
-
Very cool!
With any luck you'll turn up an old B&W picture of the jeep at work...
-
Maybe this site can help you find info on Faust Field. I just found it yesterday looking for a private field here in Miami in the 50's. Found It! I tried some Texas searches, but not knowing Texas I was just skipping around aimlessly... They may even be interested to find out there was another air field for them to investigate. Good Luck!
http://www.airfields-freeman.com/TX/Airfields_TX.htm
-
Thanks Steve,
No luck on that site.
Joe
-
Very Cool!
I'm a little jealous. Even if it is a boring and insignificant history, I still wish I knew where my Willys Jeeps had been.
-
The color of the paint behind it is bright green. That is on the original gray paint.
I used a pressure washer on it and have been knocking off the flaking metal to see how much bondo there is underneath. That area showed green paint.
When I do the sand blasting on it to get ready for sheet metal work, I may just try that area with something lighter like walnut shell and see if I can take off the brown paint and leave what is underneath.
Joe
-
It would be kind of neat to restore it back to the 'air field' era.
-
I wonder if the clipboard top mounted to the dash had anything to do with the air field stuff? (http://www.loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_4680.jpg)
Joe
-
So this weekend I pulled my gas tank out. It is in great condition inside. Sending unit or Fuel gauge do not work right, so will replace the sending unit and see what happens. But that's later.
I wanted to get at the riveted-in patch panels in the footwells. They drilled out easily and I removed them. Pretty beat up underneath.
(http://loehle.co/1949CJ3A/rustyfloorpan.jpg)
Replace the whole floorpan and hat channels in one piece? Like this: https://www.kaiserwillys.com/category/body/repair-panels/floor-panel-repair/complete-front-floor-pan-with-welded-braces-fits-46-64-cj-2a-3a-3b
Or do each side's floorpan individually like this: https://www.kaiserwillys.com/category/body/repair-panels/floor-panel-repair/floor-pan-repair-panel-for-drivers-side-fits-46-64-cj-2a-3a-3b-m38
and then have to replace the hat channels with this: https://www.kaiserwillys.com/front-floor-brace-for-drivers-side-fits-46-64-cj-2a-3a-3b-m38
Pretty close to same price, just don't know which method will be easier to do and/or better in the long run.
Any thoughts?
Joe
-
I replaced the individual pans and hat channels on a couple 3As because the transmission humps were in decent condition. I have seen the full replacement floor offered by most vendors. It is sub-standard in quality. I highly recommend Midwest Military for the hat channels. The complete set costs about the same as the partial version offered by Kaiser, and is a better quality...
https://store.midwestmilitary.com/product-p/mwm134.htm
They also have the individual pans for less than Kaiser sells them for.
Edit: Don't get me wrong. Kaiser Willys has lots of nice stuff, and I have bought plenty from them in the past. They are just out of line on the sheet steel prices.
-
I think the best way to know is sand blast before making a plan. See what you really have left over. You may need the whole floor.
I wanted just floor pans but had rot all over and in the hump, so the whole floor needed replacing, and all the hat channels. I bought a full floor from Turner 4WD (back in the day) and it was for an M38. There was no CJ full floor available at that time. As mentioned it was sub standard (pretty thin). I had the channels removed and ordered replacements from Classic Enterprise. I also worked close with the welder to ensure my CJ3B floor fasteners remained on the floor vs. using what came with the M38 floor. That required cutting the floor pans almost in half and adding correct caged nuts at certain locations.
One other thing. You'll notice a caged nut in the hat channel under the tank. I believe originally there was a stud there for the frame mount (could use a bolt) but I also had a nut swapped in for the crush sleeve that CE had at that spot.
Once the floor was attached to the hat channels and the floor attached to the tub, you really can't tell.
-
Thanks for the info. Definitely looks like a lot of rust in the hump area also. I think I may have to change out the whole thing, but will see.
I see that the KW Complete Front has a lot of the front footrest part while the individual floor pans stop at the upward angle. Another point leaning towards KW.
KW seems more expensive and I have found the same thing cheaper elsewhere, but the shipping always adds up higher. KW is about 3 hours from me, so I can go and get it instead of shipping. I just worry about spending the money and it doesn't fit in well. Mostly concerned about the hat channels lining up correctly.
Thanks for the info everyone! I will let you know how it proceeds. Right now I need to get the toolbox off and see what the other side looks like.
Joe
-
WHAT COLOR GRAY?
I always thought my gray looked a little dark for Potomac Gray. I finally got a 1948 paint swatch that has both Picket Gray and Potomac Gray on it.
My color looks slightly lighter than the Picket Gray, but not much. Could be slightly faded. Photo taken under daylight-balanced LEDs.
It is a switch over year, so I guess they used the old paint? What do you think?
(http://loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_0385.JPG)
(http://loehle.co/1949CJ3A/IMG_4118.JPG)
Joe
-
Used some citrus stripper on the back tailgate after I noticed it o my was taking the top layer off. You can see the original Picket Gray color and the “WILLYS” and “4 wheel drive” was done in red! I remember someone talking about a family member remembering it being red. Here’s pretty good proof. Personally I like it in white better, but may need to think about doing it this way for the restore.
-
I used sunlight to help me with multiple angles (strange how an angle can alter color appearance). To me the darker Picket Grey looks closest. I can understand fade but don't know enough about paint to justify paint getting darker over the years.
-
Yes. Changing the angle changes it slightly. It is REALLY close to Picket gray.