My Willys 3A and 3B Community
Your Projects => Your CJ-3A Project => Topic started by: Dre on September 22, 2015, 10:11:33 PM
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and so I begin my journey now hoping for a happy ending to the story... hopefully in not so distant future, hoping that this project won't drive me mad or won't be basis for a divorce. I have been sitting on a fence for way too long now. I knew that one day I was going to get me another Cherokee or a TJ to build out. I had that itch and I had to scratch it rather soon. One day though I was browsing through that pages and pages of trucks on eBay and I have stumbled upon this beautiful thing called Willis CJ-3A... you can call it love at first sight... you can call it destiny, you can call it whatever you want. Right there and then I knew I had to get her. Even though she was about 1800 miles from where I was sitting... I didn't care. I had to have her and so I placed my bid... and I waited and waited... fortunately for me nobody else fell in love with her as bad as I and so I got her... and here she is. 1950 CJ-3A, 90% complete, has been sitting in a Nevada desert since 1981, not running of course. Not bad as far as rust goes but in a desperate need of attention, lots and lots of attention as there is not even one piece of sheet metal that would not be bent, dented, rusted and welded over. Rodents used her nooks and crannies as their storage. I know tub will need quite a bit of tweaking, fenders might even have to go. Frame seems to be in very good shape with a few mods here and there, plates of metal welded to it at one place, front bumper welded shut. Engine might be beyond repair as she was sitting in the open with cylinder head off. At the moment I'm still trying to disassemble her and get things sorted out. First I wanted to convert her straight into an MB... but it would probably require way too much work and I'm perfectly fine with the way the front of the CJ-3A looks. My idea now is to convert her to 50-52 M38. Time will show. I'm not one of those puritans that would try and turn back time and make her look the way she rolled off the assembly line (she's not going to be a trailer queen). No, I will probably straighten the body out a bit, cut all the rust out and replace it with fresh metal and put a fresh coat of flat Olive Drab paint on it. Frame, drive-line, electrical system, brakes will all be brand new, not going to cut corners there. Time will tell... for now here she is. Every step of the way I'm going to keep this journal so I can reflect later on all the late nights I spent in the garage.
I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have plenty of questions during the process. I'm not new to this. I have built a couple of Cherokees and three off-road capable Explorers... this is going to be different though.
thanks for listening
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That Jeep has good bones.
Good luck with it!
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Something I discovered today upon closer inspection of the body... a bullet hole - through and through. Stories that these cars could tell us sometimes...
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Dre,
Looks like a nice starting point. This should be fun to watch. I took my 3A in the same direction. ( "M-38" )
Tim
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Lack of time... always something... so far I have been able to disassemble the body to nearly starting point... still have bolts on the passenger side to remove to separate the body from the frame. I will be able to start working on the frame after that. I've got an entire winter for that. Wondering if I'll be able to save the engine though (especially since it is an M38 engine!) There are a few spots I will have to weld but other than that the frame is very solid. Engine mounts worry me - especially the one on the driver side - looks like it was "grafted" it on the spot. A few update photos.
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How did you determine its an MC engine? I only ask because it has a CJ2A, MB, or GPW front engine plate.
Tim
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How did you determine its an MC engine?� I only ask because it has a CJ2A, MB, or GPW front engine plate.
Tim
804 380 casting on the block and 800376 on the head
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Does it have a serial #?
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Does it have a serial #?
Serial number is 4LR136591
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Later replacement block. Google "Willys Jeep 4LR block..." and you'll find all kinds of info. I found one of these "4LR" blocks in a 2A over the winter and chased down the same mystery.
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Later replacement block. Google "Willys Jeep 4LR block..." and you'll find all kinds of info. I found one of these "4LR" blocks in a 2A over the winter and chased down the same mystery.
But still, it has M38 casting on the block... what would that mean? is there a difference - I need to explore this a bit more. The engine might not be salvagable but I have not taken it apart juts yet
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As Ryan states, 4LR (Four Cylinder...L-Head...Replacement) engine blocks were being produced at the same time that they were producing engines that actually ended up in 3As, M38s, etc...
If your serial # began with "MC" instead of "4LR", then the engine block would have originally been installed in an M38.
Tim
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As Ryan states, 4LR (Four Cylinder...L-Head...Replacement) engine blocks were being produced at the same time that they were producing engines that actually ended up in 3As, M38s, etc...�
If your serial # began with "MC" instead of "4LR", then the engine block would have originally been installed in an M38.
Tim
So basically there is no difference in parts between these blocks? Same engine mounts? I need a manual that can explain all this. Thanks...
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well, tub is almost ready to be lifted. I just have to remove the steering wheel and shaft. I did manage to open the transmission today and a bummer... it's dry and it's rusted solid. well... looks like I'll have to hit craigslist...
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So basically there is no difference in parts between these blocks? Same engine mounts? I need a manual that can explain all this. Thanks...
Correct. An L-134 engine can accept any and all parts from any other L-134 engine.
The only time this isn't true is if you have a L-134 with a block casting # 638632 or GPW 6015. These are chain drive blocks. Most everything can be interchanged with this block too...with some exceptions.
Your tranny looks rough. That bites.
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casting on mine is 804380 and yeah... tranny's shot. I guess the entire combo (engine/tranny/T-case) is shot.
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Moving along... it's a slow process as I've been busy with work lately. Last night I decided to remove the front bumper that was welded shut to the frame including some extra braces - not sure what for? anyway, after quite a bit of cutting and cursing I was able to get at least one side off - now I'm facing a little dilemma. Front frame horns were cut then welded and braced and cut again - bumper was welded rather than bolted to the frame - is there a patch available for these CJ3A frames front section? I might have to replace leaf spring pivot brackets too... those are available. or perhaps will the CJ2A front frame horns fit the 3A frame?
thanks,
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A CJ2A frame horn is substantially different than the 3A. The toughest part is in the splice zone. Dimensionally, the 3A horn is larger and made of heavier steel. It may be difficult to get this area to look good.
I�ve never found anyone who makes a 3A horn replacement. Probably because they hold up better than the 2A.
Most of your original frame horn is still there...and in fairly decent condition. Some effort with a grinder and a small amount of welding, and you can probably save your originals. You are missing the front tab, but other than that, it�s all there�hidden under some additional plating and welds.
The original 3A bumper was riveted in place. The M38 was bolted.
Here is a photo showing the shape. On this project, mine looked as rough as yours.
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/image_zpsccdfe50b.jpg)
I had a lot of stuff to cut off�
(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa397/athawk11/athawk11%20Willys%20White/20130129006.jpg)
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I still have to remove the tub (which is free from the frame) and start separating steering and suspension components... engine's gotta go too. I will send frame to sandblasting - I have no problem cleaning it myself it's just that I don't have room to do it. I will get a new bumper and try fitting it - I'm not even sure yet if the frame is straight - it is solid, that's all I know which is good. Will keep going - got some time today.
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Tub is coming off tomorrow... finally, after many weeks of delays.
Question - before I send smaller pieces out for blasting - how do I take the steering shaft apart? Basically how do I remove top bearing which, IMO is holding the whole thing. I had a hard time taking it off - had to get steering box apart and off the frame in order to remove steering shaft in preparation for tub removal.
thanks,
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The only time this isn't true is if you have a L-134 with a block casting # 638632� or GPW 6015.� These are chain drive blocks.� Most everything can be interchanged with this block too...with some exceptions.
Not quite true. I've got a 638632 block that is gear driven...
-Paul
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I'll see what I've got - right now the engine is out and just sitting idle... I'm dealing with the frame in preparation for sand blast - I want to cut off and remove every splice and patch and hack that was done in it's previous life. Have to replace spliced pieces of the frame where spring mounts bolt to the frame - someone did some hacking here - instead of removing spring mounts they cut piece of the frame with it and then welded a patch on top or under... really *crap job. I don't know - I might pick up a butchered frame just to cut and paste missing pieces - want to keep my original frame as it is in near perfect condition other than these hacks... oh and left side engine mount had been mangled so now I'm really stuck - they don't make these pieces... rear axle is something of an enigma to me - it's got two sets of perches and from scribbling on it I can only guess that it came from a junk yard and was used in something else before. Well, and the story continues.
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Not quite true.� I've got a 638632 block that is gear driven...
-Paul
Yes Paul, you're absolutely correct. Details like this get clouded in my head at times. How about...The majority of engines with casting # 638632 were chain drives.
Tim
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Frame is finally ready. Just a few more cuts, a few welds and it goes to the sandblaster. In the meantime I can work on getting all the parts cleaned. There is lots and lots of crud on tranny and t-case - might want to dip these parts in something to loosen everything up a bit.
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Frame has been flipped and I'm working in the underside cutting off all spring perches and body mount brackets... I will have to fix frame where Bubba had his 5 minutes of fame by cutting the frame with spring perch and welding instead of cutting just the spring perch to replace and will have to do something about the front gussets as both sides are pretty beat up... Do have a question for you though - does anyone have any dimensions for the frame around the engine area - IMHO frame is a bit out of wack there - bows outwards - just want to make sure what the dimensions are suppose to be - perhaps frame bows out a bit where the engine mounts are located??? I just might take it to my friends body shop and put it on a frame machine to make sure it's straight before continuing further.
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Frame goes for some welding in a few days and then to the blaster. I'm gonna need a 3A engine mounting plate - I want to make sure everything lines up before we weld driver side engine mount bracket onto the frame. Gonna install engine mounts and plate. Found a guy on ebay that reproduces engine mount brackets (frame brackets) and hope to get a new bracket for driver side. We shall see...
I'm modifying the front end of the frame as it was mangled a bit to accept gussets and MB front bumper - going for an MB look after all - might need this thread moved to modified section...
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It's a shame that I was not able to pick up the pace with this resto but I got sidetracked with building an XJ for my brother-in-law... time to readdress the issues at hand. I have not been able to find anyone to put a few welds on the frame and therefore I might attempt to do it myself - any points from you guys would be appreciated.
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Did manage to take apart front differential and get it ready for media blast. I didn't want to end up with unknown diffs so I decided to take em apart completely and go with new bearings and races as well as new king pin bearings and races. Most of smaller parts I did put in the bucket and mixed some brew to take off all the caked on combination of dirt and grease - 66 years of it to be exact. I did come out pretty nice. Rear differential is in the midst of coming apart as well. Ring gear is chipped, carrier is "dented" - not really sure why it looks like this - looks like pinion might of gotten loose perhaps at some point? I might just go with a new set-up (used complete set would be nice). All new bearings and races as well after media blast. Transmission went into the bucket today - will see how it looks and if there is a way that I can save at least the case.
I might have a problem with front half shafts - look at photos - surface has gouges right where seals sit. Might have a problem with keeping front diff dry.
More to come. Shopping for a welder now.