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Topic Summary

Posted by: rcsteuer
« on: July 28, 2023, 07:19:01 PM »

Again, thanks for the responses.

Chuck:  Yes, drilled the new thermostat when I put it in.  After the initial refill, I put the original bellows thermostat back in.  Same results with both. I did however, reinstalled the new 165 thermostat, as I'm not sure I trust the bellows unit - it's gotta be a few days old.

Binthere:  Yep, aware of water level being that low normally.  But this thing is drinking water to the toon of a gallon every couple hundred miles. That's a bucket load of water. Thanks for the tip.

Steve: Thanks for the clarification.  Makes more sense and I'll see if i can jury rig something to hold an overflow tank for testing. Will rap on the muffler too.

Ron:  It's not so much a pump bypass issue. The newer type thermostats do not sit low enough in the block on the flatheads to be submerged in water like the original bellows units (the thermostats are stacked on top of a spacer in the housing).  This results in an air bubble forming between the block and the thermostat until the engine nearly overheats. At that point, the thermostat will open but it's usually at a high temp.  To alleviate, drilling the 1/8" hole as pictured prevents the air bubble, allows some water to maintain contact with the thermostat, and keeps the temp closer to normal.  JB Weld, here we come.
Posted by: Ron D
« on: July 28, 2023, 07:05:01 PM »

I agree with Steve and binthere.
Filling your radiator to the top (overflowing) is a little (not a gallons' worth) too much.
If you overfill it, the cooling system naturally "seeks" it's happy full level by expelling the excess out the overflow tube when driving, and a dye test kit should reveal that.

I believe drilling the small hole in the thermostat is a good idea, but I understand it's purpose is as a water-pump bypass that allows some coolant to flow before the thermostat opens, and this enables more even engine warm-up, a good thing.
I think it can also help prevent an air bubble in the system that could interfere with filling the system completely until the bubble breaks.
As much as you've been driving yours already, I can't imagine a bubble is the issue, but who knows?

On water sitting in the muffler, you could drill a small drain hole in the tin at the lowest point and see what happens.
And then seal it with a dab of JB Weld.
Posted by: SteveKfl
« on: July 28, 2023, 06:19:02 PM »

Just tapping on the muffler would suggest whether hollow or "sound subdued" by water in it, and at what level (if any).  I was thinking of the "blow by the cap" when on the road at speed, not necessarily parked to puddle.  A clear bottle on the tube would tell that story or not.  If the tube is below water level in the bottle, upon cooling off it could suck it back into the system.  I would just use the bottle to "catch the symptom" for "testing purposes".  If that is the issue, then you can leave the water level in as is, empty the bottle, and make another teat a later day to see if it repeats, or was just too full.
 
Maybe the "air bubble" was the problem"?  Filled with engine running and at operating temp? Good Luck!
Posted by: binthere
« on: July 28, 2023, 05:46:55 PM »

You do know that the water level in the rad is just about 1/2in. above the cores. If you fill it to the top, it will just boil out the overflow tube till it gets to the proper level.
Posted by: Chuck W.
« on: July 28, 2023, 05:44:36 PM »

Just thinking out loud, are you sure you didn't just have an air bubble in the coolant system? Did you remember to drill a vent hole in the thermostat?
Posted by: rcsteuer
« on: July 28, 2023, 04:09:43 PM »

Thanks for the feedback.

Ron: I'll give the dye test a try. Maybe, if it's coming out of the exhaust, it'll show up (that's being really optimistic, even if the water is being spit out the tailpipe). Don't know about the muffler being full without pulling exhaust apart - maybe someday, but not today.  I get what I would consider normal drips out of the tailpipe while cold but those dissipate after it warms up. I have a heater core, but it's sitting on the garage floor. Another rainy day project.

Steve: Water doesn't drip out of this thing anywhere. I'd have a flooded garage if it did.  I agree, it has to go somewhere.  Where is the rub.  I have the original cap on it (also 4lb) and no difference.

Rus: Keeping my fingers crossed.
Posted by: Rus Curtis
« on: July 28, 2023, 02:29:34 PM »

 I like the idea of the UV die.  Perhaps wherever it's leaking out, there will be residue that can be seen - even after it's dried.
Posted by: SteveKfl
« on: July 28, 2023, 10:35:08 AM »

I was wondering the same thing about the muffler-full, or not seeing steam.  It has to go somewhere.  Do you have a "catch can" on the radiator's overflow/pressure release tube?  Could it be blowing past the cap?  I'm thinking "new" is not always "good" these days.
Posted by: Ron D
« on: July 28, 2023, 08:18:00 AM »

Results of your cooling system pressure test seem normal to me (as does everything else you've described).
Cylinder leak down test kit isn't huge expensive (assume you already own an air compressor).

Instead, maybe try a coolant UV dye test kit like this one (watch entire 3 minute video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDuGeQnMOzk

Put the dye in the radiator and take a long drive to get the motor up to temp then search carefully for leak.
What temp thermostat did you install?

Assuming you always drive long enough to get the motor hot, and I don't see how this would be possible without also showing white smoke (--- just spit-balling), but is your muffler full of water?
That much water has to be somewhere.

I also recall reading somewhere that an emissions test (probe in tailpipe) can detect water.

Do you have a cab heater core installed?

Good luck!
Posted by: rcsteuer
« on: July 28, 2023, 06:51:45 AM »

Ron D: Thanks for the links.  Before posting, I did run a cooling system test with the 4 lb cap and I do lose pressure after a while (45 min.).  No signs of leakage an nothing ends up in the crankcase. No cylinder leak test equipment available, but previous compression tests all indicate solid and consistent numbers between cylinders. It's been a while since I did it, so don't recall for sure but seem to recall results ran around 125 psi. I live in VT which seems to be like the desert Southwest these days.

Rus: Yes, only added water. Took the antifreeze out of the system with the first sign of needing to add a gallon of water.  Running straight water until I figure out what's going on.  Definitely not getting into oil.  Level has not changed, and oil is nice and clean.
Posted by: Rus Curtis
« on: July 26, 2023, 04:40:50 PM »

So far all good steps to troubleshoot. 

What I read is you added water. 


Did you have antifreeze in the mix?  Did you see a rise in the oil level on the dipstick?
Posted by: Ron D
« on: July 26, 2023, 02:30:59 PM »

Maybe do a cooling system pressure test like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UStbSubWwLA

Or maybe a cylinder leak down test like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9aKM4znvWU

Where are you located?
Desert southwest where the temperature this time of year sucks water out of everything?

I'm out of ideas.
Good luck!
Posted by: rcsteuer
« on: July 24, 2023, 08:13:24 AM »

And plugs are a nice tan (or brownish) color.
Posted by: rcsteuer
« on: July 24, 2023, 08:11:10 AM »

No steam (that's noticeable) and used a new 4 lb cap. If it was a cap issue, I do believe I'd be seeing water all over the floor as it bypassed the cap.
Posted by: Ron D
« on: July 23, 2023, 09:09:58 PM »

I always thought water out the tailpipe produces steam (white "smoke")?
What do the spark plugs look like?

Stock 4-pound pressure cap on the radiator?