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Topic Summary

Posted by: SteveKfl
« on: September 24, 2020, 09:53:56 AM »

For my modified "factory 2WD set up" with an "I-beam axle" over the springs, placing the "spring-spacer" on top of the pack lowered the frame with bellcrank the  1/4" that "I needed to accomplish horizontal".  Keep in mind, my spindles already had the tie rods fitted in from the top, and didn't have the angle of 4WD, even without the stiffer springs you replaced with adding to your angles.  You actually went the opposite direction of my setup, raising the frame. I found a pic of the "original set up" taken when I first brought it home for "illustration" of the differences.  Maybe I shouldn't have said anything, it is unrelated to 4WD CJs.  Sorry. 
Posted by: Montreal Hurricane
« on: September 23, 2020, 09:06:06 PM »

I replaced the shackle and pivot brackets because there was a lot of play in the holes.  I ended up grinding off the rivet heads and punching the rivets upwards and cutting off the ears of the bracket.  I threaded a 1/2’’ flatbar with the bracket bolt pattern and slid it into the boxed portion of the frame to screw in the new brackets.  But on second thought that 3/16 plate from the old bracket still welded on is not helping the lift cause...               
I don’t get how adding shims in the spring pack will level out tie rods, maybe I can have a taper bolt machined to fit tie rod end on top (to the drawing board!)
Posted by: SteveKfl
« on: September 21, 2020, 11:51:28 PM »

To begin with, the brackets have to be unriveted to be changed, as shackles fit outside the bracket, while springs fit inside their respective bracket.  I did lots of other mods too, so it was easier for my 2WD setup without a 'drive shaft to transfer case hook up' to deal with.  I'm guessing the 4WD need the pivot at rear to stabilize the distance for the driveshaft, as the rear is pivoted on the drive end. 
 
Mine is not intended for any off-road use, just cruising, so "travel" is not a concern like when off-roading.  To adjust the horizontal tie rods position only required "for my set up", a 1/4" spacer, which I used an extra helper short leaf on top of the spring pack to not stiffen it more.  In old backing plate pics I noticed my tie rods already mount from the top, so I didn't have to change that, and the rods go over the spring pack.  I just didn't like the stories of "death wobble" when I expect to do expressway speeds "some day", and the thought of both shackles and toe rods able to move all around looked like I should remove the shackles participation in that.  I can't find any pics that show the horizontal tie rods as the receiver hitch mounted on the front blocks the view.  I can't get any current pics as the body is on dollies for paint prep with the suspension and power train in storage already painted.  Life has interrupted progress on my project for 4 years now.  Maybe some day I'll get it all back together for pics and experiences too.
 
Question... Does anybody know if Jeep ever put front spring pivots on from the factory?  I seem to remember they did some time later, but couldn't find pics on the internet to verify it.  Oops, I've gotten way off topic of "tie rod angles".  Sorry.   
Posted by: Montreal Hurricane
« on: September 21, 2020, 09:08:38 PM »

Interesting setup, I thought about putting the shackle at the rear of the front springs before I put them on and once they were on I thought about it some more.  When you say you adjusted your tie rods to horizontal, how did you do it? By changing spring rate?  How much did the shackle reversal help?

Too bad that’s a taper Tie rod end connection, obviously it was designed to go underneath but because the load is transferred to the hub through the arm so it doesn’t appear as if it would change applied torque if it were on top or under (an angled tie rod will reduce torque so I was thinking it would just get stronger going on top).  No one has successfully done this?

Thanks again

56’ 3B
Ramsey Winch
STT Pro Cooper 215/85/16
Home made roll cage
Posted by: SteveKfl
« on: September 21, 2020, 12:45:03 PM »

Here's a question... Can the driver's side spindle be moved to passenger's side and flipped 180 degrees (same  for Passenger side to driver side) to put the steering tie rod taper 'top side' facing front?  I have no clue of how the hubs or brake backing plates are fastened, hopefully uniformly.  Just going by the pic here, and thinking out loud.  Sorry for lack of real 4WD experience.  Just trying to think outside the box.  That extreme angle plays havoc with steering geometry of the up and down suspension movement to toe in/toe out from "drive height setting"  I swapped my DJ's suspension to "front pivot rear shackle" for more stability, and adjusted my tie rods to horizontal to only get minimum toe-in with suspension movement from zero.  Needless to say, I'm not a "purist by any stretch of the imagination.  I just love my Willys and this site of great people sharing ideas. 
  https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=Wa3M%2fEPx&id=10C327E537C12F23DEC6E8D15F2A23BB43B9561B&thid=OIP.Wa3M_EPxN-yhyz9kWKk2zQHaC0&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2farmyradio.com%2fpublish%2fMB-GPW_Jeep_Parts%2fPictures%2fpic-44.jpg&exph=244&expw=640&q=willys+cj+front+steering+images&simid=608045478135333029&ck=4062F3A8F00A8864EB90629D63F32638&selectedIndex=19&FORM=IRPRST&ajaxhist=0
Posted by: Rus Curtis
« on: September 21, 2020, 10:16:46 AM »

Quote from: Montreal Hurricane on September 20, 2020, 10:26:00 PM
Hello everyone,
I installed new from springs over the weekend and the Jeep is about an inch higher than it should be (still without shocks) and the tie rods are angled up towards the bell crank.  The tie rod ends attach on the bottom of the knuckle steering arm, can I switch them to the top to level out the tie rods?
The springs are 10 leaf pack, and I measured 17’’ c-c between shock mounts with Jeep sitting Level on springs (no shocks), 18.5’’ with the axle hanging free.  When I put a jack under left tire I get 16.75’’ comp side and 17.6 ext side (the left tire was a good foot off the ground but the Jeep was tilting so I stopped).   There’s no way the axle could get to the bumper, are these compression numbers Normal?  The front shackles are almost vertical, maybe 10deg towards the front.

Thanks!

MH,
I experienced the same thing when I replaced my springs.  I ended up having to use a different shock that had a longer travel so that it wasn't at full extension when resting.  I believe the springs will settle some over time as I drive it (hanging on to my OEM shocks for that reason).  You could also consider removing some leafs to allow the springs to settle a bit more (I chose not to do this).

On your tie rod ends, look at the shaft that goes through the knuckle arm.  I believe those are tapered.  They may not fit at all if inserted from the top and certainly wouldn't perform correctly - if possible. 

Time to invest in side steps!
Posted by: Montreal Hurricane
« on: September 20, 2020, 10:26:00 PM »

Hello everyone,
I installed new from springs over the weekend and the Jeep is about an inch higher than it should be (still without shocks) and the tie rods are angled up towards the bell crank.  The tie rod ends attach on the bottom of the knuckle steering arm, can I switch them to the top to level out the tie rods?
The springs are 10 leaf pack, and I measured 17’’ c-c between shock mounts with Jeep sitting Level on springs (no shocks), 18.5’’ with the axle hanging free.  When I put a jack under left tire I get 16.75’’ comp side and 17.6 ext side (the left tire was a good foot off the ground but the Jeep was tilting so I stopped).   There’s no way the axle could get to the bumper, are these compression numbers Normal?  The front shackles are almost vertical, maybe 10deg towards the front.

Thanks!