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Topic Summary

Posted by: ring eye 01
« on: August 18, 2020, 12:31:00 PM »

Check with Walcks ,they handle sealed power,clevite and generic brand of bearings
Posted by: squidtone
« on: June 22, 2020, 10:49:52 PM »

Stony,
I rebuilt a 1950 Allis Chalmers "B" engine some years ago, and it indeed used peel-able shims to shim the rod and main bearing caps to "tune" appropriate gaps. There was a formula on how much to sand down the bearing shells to accommodate the ultimate height of your shim stack. The shims were brass too.
But, the Jeep manual says DO NOT shim the Willys engine! So I'm inclined to follow orders!

And indeed, here's my update to my "low oil pressure with a very liight knock" situation:
I took the engine out since I planned on replacing the mains and connecting rod bearings.

While worn, all the old bearings looked okay and I planned on just replacing all the bearings. The idea of that noise though convinced me to pop out the pistons. What I found was all the pistons had shattered top rings. They came out in many many pieces. In fact, piston 4 managed to wedge 3 pieces on top of each other in the ring land. So the pistons are no good. Sigh. Remarkably, the cylinder walls don't look like they suffered much from that issue. So I think the noise I was hearing was broken piston rings. Lots and lots of bitty bits knocking about.

Next, the valves were a bit noisy sometimes and here I found that the exhaust valves had about 0.060" side to side slop. Hard to believe this engine ran so well.

It gets worse though:

While inspecting the cylinder wall ridges, I found a 1 inch long crack at the top of cylinder 4. It runs along horizontally above where the rings move up and down. I believe this is the source of my very slight coolant leak.
Dang.

I emailed Brian Hainer (metalshaper on youtube) and I've got an appointment next week to bring the block to him. He says he can help. (He's an hour from me)
My "hobby" budget is very small. We'll see how it goes.
Not sure how much a combo of lock n stitch and sleeve-ing would be.


Posted by: stony
« on: June 19, 2020, 01:46:15 PM »

Dave:  in the “old days” they would shim the bearings.  In your case it might be worth a try.  I would love to see someone do this (not me LOL).  Seems like you are in the perfect position to try it.  Here is a link:  http://deckwartaperedshims.com/index.php  Good luck!
Posted by: squidtone
« on: June 07, 2020, 08:16:53 PM »

I checked Rockauto. They are "out of stock" on main and connecting rod bearings (0.010"'s)

Okay Bruce, good advice on NOT loctiting in the dowels. BUT, it seems as though the person who refurbished this engine in the past lost the dowels (which I NOW realize should have a step in them to prevent them from moving out to contact the crank) and put in STRAIGHT dowels with NO step! They drilled out the bearing shells to allow the home made dowels to fit. But that means they can slip out and contact the crank!
Gah.

I will probably buy some new ones which I see some vendors sell, or make some. I have a lathe at work.

Posted by: Bruce_W
« on: June 06, 2020, 11:29:32 PM »

 NNNOOOOOO! Do not use Loctite  or anything else to secure the dowels in the block or caps! If you do, you will hate yourself later, or I or someone else will hate you. The part that fits in the block or cap is larger than the part that fits into the hole in the bearing, so the bearing itself holds the dowel in its hole. The part that fits into the bearing is shorter than the thickness of the bearing, so it will not contact the crankshaft. If the bearing wears thin enough for the dowel to contact the crank, you’ve got plenty of problems already.
BW
Posted by: aboyandhisdog
« on: June 06, 2020, 09:05:40 PM »

Dave,  did you check with Rock Auto?  They seem to have a few rod and main bearings.  No idea if they have the sizes you need.  https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/jeep,1949,willys,2.2l+134cid+l4,1420894,engine,crankshaft+main+bearing,5220
Posted by: squidtone
« on: June 06, 2020, 04:08:55 PM »

I've spent several hours looking for bearings. There seems to be a shortage out there for Clevite and Sealed Power bearings. No one has them in stock. (At least in the 10 or so places I've looked).
I think I'll have to go with Crown or Omix.
I found that even there I'm having a hard time finding anyone who has stock. I ended up finding the main bearings on Amazon, and the rod bearings on Summit Racing.
Walcks has stuff, and it appears it's either Crown or Omix. But even so, they're a bit more pricey.

Oddly enough, if I buy single Rod Bearing pairs, it's cheaper than buying a package of 4 pairs.

I am going to stew on this and purchase in the next day or so.

By the way, are the dowels that keep the bearing shells in place supposed to pop out of the caps easily? seems like that would be a bad thing...I wouldn't want the dowels to slip out and contact the crank while in motion. I may loctite them (retaining version of loctite aka "green") in place...any objections?

Posted by: squidtone
« on: June 03, 2020, 10:35:57 PM »

The evidence so far lead me (with fingers crossed) to that conclusion too.
I'm in the same boat as athawk11 in that I'm no machinist, but I did once rebuild a small block ford that had large tapers in the bores and really worn out bearings. I ridge reamed it, re-ringed it, polished the journals with a string and 400 grit sandpaper, put in new bearings, took apart and cleaned sticky lifters and the darn thing ran awesome.

So, with no red flags at this point, I have begun a parts search for main bearings and connecting rod bearings. Now for the slippery slope:
Since mains will require engine removal, I'm considering doing a ring job also (I've had the head off and it does not have big ridges at the top so I'll lightly hone it). And maybe valves, guides and springs.

But I'm finding that many suppliers have no stock of Sealed Power parts. This is mainly online vendors. It seems that NAPA has most everything, but they're probably 30 percent higher cost. On the bright side, they are offering 20 percent off on purchases over $150.

The nail biter is how I'll cut new valve seats. I'd love a set of Neway seat cutters, but for now that would exceed my budget.
I may hold off on that since I can do the valve job in-chassis later although at the cost of yet another head gasket set.
thanks for inputs.
Posted by: Bob W
« on: June 03, 2020, 07:57:09 PM »

The bearings and crankshaft journals don't look too bad. Sounds like your bearings have a bit too much clearance and your oil pressure is a bit too low.
Posted by: athawk11
« on: June 03, 2020, 12:02:58 PM »

I'm not a machinist, but from my experience, your journals and bearings look pretty darn good.
Posted by: squidtone
« on: June 03, 2020, 10:04:17 AM »

Update:
The main bearings are also 0.010" under.
All bearings are Clevite brand
Both the connecting rod and main bearing shells have date codes of 1964 and 1965. I presume this engine was "refreshed" in the '60's but it still has "STD" pistons.

I looked into what thisi engine block is too. There is a thread on the Willys M Jeeps site about 641087 engine blocks. They describe the progression of the 641087 over it's life and break it into 4 series. My engine block has attributes of both series 3 and series 4.
Only two freeze plugs, but NO large bell housing flange, and some casting features that look like series 4. A strange block.
Posted by: squidtone
« on: June 02, 2020, 09:36:05 PM »

Thanks fellas.
I did take apart and clean the oil pickup last summer, and the float, still "floats" too. No cracks in pickup elbow tube.

I took off all connecting rod caps.
What I found was -0.010" connecting rod journals with Clevite bearings.

Nothing is "spun". The bearings look worn, old, and, well, kind of corroded. There is a little trash embedded in them, but that is not distressing to me in an old engine like this. The bearing material is all even; no worn through layers of a different color.

I reinstalled and torqued each cap with plastigage.

Conrod 1:  0.003"
Conrod 2:  0.0045"
Conrod 3:  0.005"
Conrod 4:  0.0045"

Keep in mind the "resolution" of plastigage allows me to decently estimate the "half thou".

I measured the journals with a micrometer I inherited. (The "mike" is in good shape, but the stamp on the box says 1948, so I'm thinking it's a little past "cal")

RodJournal 1: 1.9275"
RodJournal 2: 1.9265"
RodJournal 3: 1.9270"
RodJournal 4: Neglected to measure

This tells me that whoever machined the crank took off 0.001 or so too much, or it's just wear.

The journals don't look too bad.

I took off the center main cap. The bearing shell looks pretty good, but again, just old and corroded, or etched. Not much trash at all in the bearing babbit.

I measured the clearance:

0.003"

I did not take off the front or rear caps yet.

Willys specification for mains and connecting rods is 0.0003" to 0.0029".
Every measurement I took exceeds 0.0029". In some cases by a couple thou'.

What do you think the chances are these clearances are the culprit for low oil pressure?
Does a 0.005" clearance in a connecting rod make a soft knocking sound?

I"m sure it's getting obvious I don't want to do a full rebuild even though that's ideally what should happen here. I don't mind "cheating" and just doing a bearing job (I've had success on other projects doing this), but I've never experienced this kind of low oil pressure problem and that's why I'm asking all the questions....

Any thoughts or comments welcome...even darts and jabs  :)

Posted by: Bob W
« on: June 02, 2020, 08:20:06 PM »

And the oil pickup for clogging and air leaks.
Posted by: Bob W
« on: June 02, 2020, 08:19:00 PM »

A visual check of the main and rod bearings, and then plastigauge check is a very good idea.
Posted by: squidtone
« on: June 02, 2020, 08:58:18 AM »

Rus,
I only heard the knock under load, at higher RPM's. I could not hear it at idle, or revving with no load.
My only experience with spun bearings on connecting rods was my son's subaru engine. It only made a knock when revving, but when we took it apart a connecting rod bearing was indeed spun and it wiped the crank pin pretty bad.
I didn't want to let it get to that point on my Jeep, so I've parked it and taken the pan off to start inspecting.
But to continue answering your questions:
I use 10W-40 oil with the classic bypass oil filter system. Oil is clean, filter is fresh from last summer (probably 800 miles on the oil change).

I don't know what year this engine is. It's a geared cam engine. Does not have the large rear bellhousing flange (indicating a "late" built engine). Oil pump is aluminum. 641087 block, but with with a weird stamp. I'm assuming it is from a stationary application. see pic.

I'm about to pop off some rod caps today I hope. I'll report with what I find there.