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Topic Summary

Posted by: SteveKfl
« on: March 13, 2020, 08:55:09 AM »

Yeah, I love a good ending, and an inexpensive solution too.  Congrats!  Can you use a small grommet or "liquid electrical tape" to fill the hole and insulate the wire from rubbing the metal?   Happy motoring!
Posted by: Rus Curtis
« on: March 12, 2020, 08:41:38 PM »

Sounds like a good reason to go drive!  Congrats!
Posted by: GunnersWillys
« on: March 12, 2020, 07:06:37 PM »

Epilogue:  Going into this, we probably all knew this issue would be caused by something simple.  And, either I would overlook something obvious, or would have caused the problem by some sort of trivial mistake.  Or both.

Well, it was both, or maybe both, you can judge. 

I was on the verge of ordering a new distributor this morning, so I had a chat with Carl Walck.  We ran through the symptoms and what I'd done so far.  He pretty much agreed it was distributor related, but since the points wouldn't gap correctly he suggested I ream out the mount to allow more movement.  I did so and am now able to set the points at .020.  But, no real change in performance.

But something else he said got me thinking. He asked if the extra stainless spring for the points was in place, as the fact that it would miss at high rev suggested the points opening and closing could not keep up with the accelerating distributor cam.  So I took another look at a spare set.  Having followed the pattern for the points that were already in the distributor, I had placed the stainless spring OVER the copper spring, not under it.  It needed to go under!  Under, the pressure on the cam is much stronger.  A few seconds of tinkering and I figured out how it locked in, reinstalled them, and bingo!  Winner winner chicken dinner!  I have full acceleration, no more miss, and the engine runs like it should!

I still had the solid jumper wire from the points to the coil.  I'd previously removed the terminal post that feeds through the side of the distributor housing.  I reassembled as original, and no spark.  I finally just put back the jumper, and the engine is back to normal.  I need to fill in around the wire.  If anyone has any suggestions of the best way to do so, pipe up please.

I reset the timing slightly, seems perfect now.

It still doesn't want to start cold, but fires right up now when warm.  I'll drive it as much as possible over the next week or so to make sure I'm not missing something.  But after multiple pretty aggressive accelerations this afternoon, it is holding true.

Now on to 3 different oil leaks and very loose steering.  Thanks to everyone for their help! 
Posted by: SteveKfl
« on: March 12, 2020, 08:45:21 AM »

I can't imagine the wear that fast, so I'm guessing maybe the plate the points are mounted on is moving.  Could that be because of the vacuum advance, mine is mechanical advance and also is converted to digital, so I can't look at it now.  Have you tried isolating by plugging the vacuum line to the advance to eliminate that "action" that may be intermittent?  Good to know if you need to buy a new distributor and "use the same advance mechanism".  Do you, or someone else, have a good distributor to measure the diameter of the opposing lobs to see if yours are "worn down"?  The mystery continues...  Thanks for sharing.
Posted by: aboyandhisdog
« on: March 11, 2020, 10:02:46 PM »

It sounds like you are trying to keep everything stock, but at the risk of being shunned from the 3A page, I will admit that I do like my Omix electronic diz very much.  It is going strong after 11 years.  I did have to swap in a new module once, but that was "operator failure" on my part.  And a new module is about $59 so I always carry a spare in my parts bag just like guys will carry points and condenser.  I could not be happier with this dizzy.
Posted by: GunnersWillys
« on: March 11, 2020, 08:17:59 PM »

Okay, back from a work trip, new points and condenser arrived.  Before installing those I made a new jumper from the coil to the points thinking maybe one of the wires was bad.  Direct instead of using the terminal block, ran it through the terminal block hole.  No change.

Installed the condenser, no change.

Installed the new points, it actually ran a little better but not fixed.  Then idling in the garage it slowed down and died. I checked the gap, it had closed some.  Tried resetting it and ran into what may be another clue.  I cannot get the points to open quite to the suggested .020" gap.  Fiddling with the adjustment screw, it just won't do it.  It's like the thing (not sure what you call it) on the points that makes contact with the cam is too short.  Problem is, it is that way on all the points I've tried.  I do have grease on the cam.  So is the thing on the points wearing down immediately?  Or, is the cam in the distributor worn to the point where it will no longer open the points?  ???

If so, back to the new distributor plan.  Walcks has them, but only in mechanical advance.  Kaiser Willys I think has vacuum advance, but I have to supply the vacuum unit.  Thoughts?
Posted by: Rus Curtis
« on: March 08, 2020, 08:53:22 PM »

Quote from: GunnersWillys on March 08, 2020, 05:38:27 PM

EDIT:  In doing some extra reading I realized the coil I picked up from my local shop does not have a resistor built in.  I swapped back in my old one, which tested out fine with a meter, and some improvement.  I was able to set the timing where it should be and it starts quickly and accelerates smoothly up about 2/3rds of the way through, then starts to spit.  Still won't wind out without serious spitting at the top of the rpms.  Making progress though!

Well now.  I used an inline resistor at first when I switched from 6V to 12V.  This time around I ordered a coil with an internal resistor.  It may be cheaper, easier and quicker to get one of those resistors and add it to the new coil. 
Posted by: GunnersWillys
« on: March 08, 2020, 07:03:46 PM »

SteveKFL:

I considered that.  I rebuilt the engine myself a while back then sold it, so I know clocking was perfect "before" I sold it.  No telling what the interim owner did while it was away.  See above, just got the timing figured out, I think. 
Posted by: SteveKfl
« on: March 08, 2020, 06:56:24 PM »

Before buying a new distributor, have you considered trying moving the plug wire locations one hole and try timing it again?  Just 'wondering' out loud.  Good Luck! 
Posted by: GunnersWillys
« on: March 08, 2020, 05:38:27 PM »

Well, no change.  New rotor, same issue.  Russ, the spring is on the points as required, so that is not it.

I can spin the distributor far enough now that I can line up my white mark with 5 deg BTC using the timing light.  Runs even worse then.

I'll order new points and condenser from Walcks tomorrow as what I've bought from them before worked well.  If that doesn't fix it, new distributor I guess.

EDIT:  In doing some extra reading I realized the coil I picked up from my local shop does not have a resistor built in.  I swapped back in my old one, which tested out fine with a meter, and some improvement.  I was able to set the timing where it should be and it starts quickly and accelerates smoothly up about 2/3rds of the way through, then starts to spit.  Still won't wind out without serious spitting at the top of the rpms.  Making progress though!
Posted by: GunnersWillys
« on: March 08, 2020, 12:01:40 PM »

Thanks for the distributor comments. I don't have any side to side movement, 3:00 to 9:00 or 12:00 to 6:00.  It will pull in and out a bit, and spin a bit.  I'll double check later today.

I ordered a new ignition rotor from my local FLAPS and it is due to arrive in a couple of hours.  I'll report after.  Fingers crossed!
Posted by: Rus Curtis
« on: March 08, 2020, 11:44:24 AM »

Quote from: GunnersWillys on March 02, 2020, 10:51:41 PM
Next I installed new points.  Now it won't start at all, even with ether.
I noticed the distributor cam has a lot of play.  Pulling on it you can move it up maybe 1/8th of an inch.  No movement side to side, but spinning it clockwise or counter/clockwise, it moves more than I expected.  Issue there?


Same for me.  I had a garage work over my jeep way back.  They idled it but didn't do a "tune up"  I drove home but could only hold a very rough 20 mph.  I ended up just towing it the rest of the way.  Later, it was pointed out by another mechanic (as Scoutpilot mentioned) that the distributor shaft had too much play - this affected the points opening and closing.  I didn't know anything about rebuilding, so I replaced the whole distributor and got it to run as now the gap on the points would stay where it was supposed to be.  Then, I didn't have a dwell meter nor a timing light.

If there's a fluctuation on the points, you should be able to measure this.  I also thought of the "spring" that's included with some brands of the points set.  The copper strap is only for electrical connection, the spring is also needed.
Posted by: scoutpilot
« on: March 08, 2020, 08:29:21 AM »

Your misfire gets worse with increased rpm? It happens at all four cylinders? Commonality? Points. The new set of points. Does it have a chrome steel helper spring that rides next to the copper strap? If not, your points are floating and unable to make good steady contact. OR. Check the distributor shaft for play, side to side, 3 to 9 and 6 to 12 o'clock. A worn bushing in the distributor body will cause the same problem.
Posted by: SteveKfl
« on: March 07, 2020, 06:07:29 PM »

Nice trick to 'see' the spark action on each cylinder with the T-Light.  Have you tried it with the vacuum advance disconnected and line plugged to isolate the distributor timing to watch the spark and running impact?  My thinking is that since you said your timing lights 1" from the pointer (retarded), but you are OK with the wires and positioning of the rotor to #1, is the v-advance mechanism involved?  Now I have to look it up, but I thought I remembered that 2 o'clock was the correct position for #1.  OK, it is the "oiler" that is to be at 2 o'clock, clips at 3 & 9.  Also, I'm wondering if that rotor may be worn, or the cap contacts, and at speed can't jump the gap is another culprit I'm guessing about.  At least "fuel" is not on the list now.  Keep us learning along with you.  Thanks. 
Posted by: GunnersWillys
« on: March 07, 2020, 04:58:57 PM »

Thanks Russ, and yes, I've confirmed.  I had to because when I replaced the cap I got the wires mixed up.  That was a couple of weeks ago.  I rechecked just to be certain I didn't mis-wire since then. # 1 is at 5:00 as it should be. I rebuilt the engine a while back and have the oiler positioned properly.

Update:  After more reading I realized I can use my timing light to confirm I'm getting spark to each plug.  At idle its a nice steady flash.  As you raise the engine speed you start to get misses. They show up in the flashing pattern on the light.  The flash stumbles as the engine stumbles.  It is consistent on all four wires.  That tells me the issue is upstream from the plugs and wires. 

I've checked all related wiring looking for a possible break, inside the distributor as well, nothing.  The rotor is the only thing I haven't replaced.  I'll order one on Monday, and new points and condenser just for grins, and see what happens.  If that doesn't fix it, maybe it's time for a distributor?  No telling how old that one is.