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Topic Summary

Posted by: athawk11
« on: September 06, 2013, 11:13:06 AM »

That is the machine gun plate we were looking for!� excellent.� The bellcrank is also MB.� The number on the support gusset is an ACM #.� American Central Manufacturing made the tubs/sheet metal parts for Willys up until 3A production.� I'm not super familiar with ACM Willys # information for dating the Willys.� On WWII tubs, I believe Type 1 tubs had very sharp angle looking gusset supports.� Type 2 tubs are late war. The gusset supports on Type 2 are more rounded like a 2A and 3A.

Engine history is easiest to discover by knowing the block serial #.� This is a stamped number on the engine boss.� The engine boss with serial # can be found in one of two places...

--Just below the water pump.� There is a flat spot on the engine block.

OR

--Just behind where the original oil filter is mounted.� There is usually an oval shaped flat spot on the block.

Be careful when removing rust or paint from these bosses.� The stamping can be very faint if the block has been re-surfaced.� Don't GRIND away.� Use a combo of soft wire brushes, fluids, 220, 320 sand paper, etc..�

This is the best way to date the block.� The #s may not be there anymore...for a number of reasons.� If they are gone, there is almost no way to verify that the engine block is original to this Willys.

Your head is surely a MB, GPW, or VEC 2A head.� This makes me hopeful the engine is also WWII, but we won't be able to tell from the engine castings you have uncovered.� Find those serial #s!! ;)

I don't want you to go away, but FBill has pointed out the other military sites that can be very helpful while doing your research.� Go there, but always come back to us here at the 3A.� We are all Willys enthusiasts.� We like all things flat fender.� We also happen to be the most friendly Willys forum on the net!! ;)

Tim
Posted by: DaveG
« on: September 05, 2013, 10:45:13 PM »

OK, been doing more research.  Near as I can tell the frame number was made in 1945.  If that is the case, the engine in it could be original as it shows being a transitional casting. 

Any different opinions or anybody want to tell me what I am looking at wrong?   ;)   

Thanks,

Dave
Posted by: DaveG
« on: September 05, 2013, 07:56:21 PM »

Thanks Paul.  Found some good info there.  The numbers on the block and head indicate that it was a transitional engine that comes up 2a. 

I also found the tag on the inside of the left front frame rail.  It shows number 449021.

Additionally on the body bolster on the firewall near the steering column there is a stamped number.  247830  Any chance that was the hood number?

Thanks,

Dave
Posted by: PaulS
« on: September 05, 2013, 07:12:40 PM »

A great list of block casting information is at http://ww2jeeps.com/htm/Lheadmain.htm

-Paul
Posted by: DaveG
« on: September 05, 2013, 06:14:45 PM »

Well my trusty wire brush found the numbers on the engine.  They are near the bottom on the right hand side.  They are...

1-26   641087-L-W10  A  N  R-N2

Do these numbers mean anything to anyone?

Thanks,

Dave
Posted by: DaveG
« on: September 05, 2013, 05:57:36 PM »

Couple more pics.
Posted by: DaveG
« on: September 05, 2013, 05:48:11 PM »

Quote
The plate mentioned on the frame crossmember....

is a machine gun mounting plate...and if you look at the rear floor right where it comes up between the front seats you will notice an area in the front floor seam that has a rounded protrusion tha ta ten inch or so circle would match.� If you complete the circle on the floor directly below it you will find a crossmember with a bracket on it that is welded to the top of the crossmember directly under the floor. That is where a machine gun mount similar to what you might have seen in Rat Patrol reruns would bolt to the floor. That would verify a WWII frame, as would the front bellcrank mount being on the front axle instead of the bottom of the radiator crossmember. :)

I got a better look under the Jeep today and it does have the machine gun mount plate.   ;D

Did a little sanding on the hood but have not had any luck finding numbers.  Went to metal in a few places without ever seeing any white or light blue.  I have heard of using a propane torch to burn layers off.  Opinions?  Advice?

Thanks,

Dave
Posted by: DaveG
« on: September 05, 2013, 04:21:15 PM »

Quote
Hi Paul.
(I think we just highjacked Dave's post :) ;D Hopefully he doesn't mind.)


Not in the least.  I am learning all the time.
Posted by: athawk11
« on: September 05, 2013, 03:16:37 PM »

Hi Paul.
(I think we just highjacked Dave's post :) ;D Hopefully he doesn't mind.)

I know just enough about grilles to be completely wrong.� An early 2A is easy to spot.� Inset park light with the headlight googling out of the grille.� (vs MB where the headlights are inset)

I can't tell a difference between a late 2A and an early 3A.� �They are both set up to accept a bottom mount radiator. If there are any differences, Bob W may be able to help us out with them.

The late 3A grille changed on the inside to accept the side mount style radiators.� Looks the same on the outside.

I have no idea how to spot a repro.� Again, just enough knowledge to be completely wrong. :-[

Tim

Posted by: PaulS
« on: September 05, 2013, 01:07:17 PM »

Tim,  You know more about M38s than I do.  (Much more!)  I looked back at an earlier thread where I had posted a picture of my tub (removed from the Jeep), and someone else posted that it was an M38.  You corrected him, saying it was a repro.

I was just pointing out that it's easy for those of us with only passing familiarity of the designs to be mistaken, as there can be a variety of different repro designs out there from decades past, that may look more or less like various different Flatties.

The extent of my knowledge is much more limited--I looked at the first pictures in this thread and noticed only that the ones labelled CJ3A didn't have the Willys stamp on them, and (I think) that means that it wasn't an original CJ3A tub.  But whether it's a repro or an M38 (or GPW/MB) is beyond my level of knowledge.

BTW--what's the difference between a CJ3A grille and a CJ2A grille?  (Looking at early comments in this thread.)  I've got two grilles (both of which I assume are repros) and I don't know what they most resemble.  They're both in much better shape than my tub was, though, and can certainly be used again without much more than a coat of paint.

-Paul
Posted by: DaveG
« on: September 05, 2013, 12:23:00 PM »

Quote
Have you made any changes in your decision on what your going to do with the MB?

Thanks Brett.

I don't know for sure.  If I had any sense at all I would sell the MB and concentrate on the M38.  Hard for me to let any Jeep go though.  If I had unlimited funds and time I would definitely restore them both but I don't have either.

Posted by: bretto
« on: September 05, 2013, 06:40:50 AM »

I just noticed this thread.  Congrats on the new editions!  Looks like you have two gems in the ruff. 
Have you made any changes in your decision on what your going to do with the MB?
I am on the tail end of restoring my M38 and love it as will you with yours.
Posted by: athawk11
« on: September 04, 2013, 11:16:43 PM »

Paul,
I'm pretty sure that's an original MB tub.� There are features on this tub that were not duplicated on early reproduction tubs.� Early repos did not have the notch in the top center of the dash where the cowl folds over the dash.� The emergency brake hole in the dash also looks right. On early repro tubs the brake handle mount and hole for the handle were all jacked up.�

I may be wrong, but there are a number of additional small details that scream original MB.

Tim
Posted by: PaulS
« on: September 04, 2013, 05:49:37 PM »

Careful--some repro tubs could confuse things.  My Jeep had a repro tub from the 80's on it when I got it.  It was in far worse condition than what's in these pictures, so age doesn't always correlate with condition.  It had a lot of MB/GPW features to it, though it was mounted on a 3A frame. (And had a 2A engine.)

-Paul
Posted by: F Bill
« on: August 29, 2013, 02:09:05 PM »

T-90 Gearbox.

It turns over? Cool!

Stock MB did use a handcrank. They are rare but you can get repop ones.