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Topic Summary

Posted by: elawson
« on: October 23, 2016, 06:28:01 PM »

I had a neoprene lip seal on my 4F134 fail after about 20 minutes of operation.� It looked like the seal spun in the groove until it disintegrated.

http://cj3b.info/Engine/Rebuild5.html

shows what I did

I've done this for several engines and so far, I've lucked out... :-)

Eric
Posted by: specialty
« on: October 20, 2016, 02:42:53 AM »

Wish I could say the same about the neoprene seal I put in last summer.  Not a drop the first day and now it's worse than it was before changing it. Are those nos rope seals still available?
Posted by: ventport
« on: October 19, 2016, 11:16:11 PM »

When I rebuilt my 3A 15 years ago I used a NOS rope seal from a very old gasket set I bought at a swap meet.  Does not leak one single drop.  Parked it over a piece of white cardboard after driving it and not a spot on it.  So the old asbestos seals work.
Posted by: aboyandhisdog
« on: August 24, 2016, 01:37:40 PM »

Bestgasket lists both KW and Walcks as their distributors.  Great tip, Dave!  I wonder if their oil pan gasket is drip free.   The last one I bought from Walcks was of the cork variety, but on the Bestgasket site it looks like theirs could be fiber.  Might just have to give that a try some day.
Posted by: squidtone
« on: August 24, 2016, 12:51:13 PM »

I wanted to comment on this because I have a Pontiac from the 60's and they suffer from the same problems you all are describing:
New rope seals just don't work when rebuilding the engines.
The problem has been described (for Pontiacs) as the removal of asbestos as a material to use for the rope. The substitute material is not nearly as good. When I re-sealed my Pontiac the rope seal included in the Fel-Pro kit appeared thin and not-supple. (only way I can describe) so I didn't even give it a try.
Some folks have switched to all neoprene two piece lip type seals on Pontiacs but with very mixed results, just like our Willys engines.
A solution I went with for my Pontiac is a new-fangled rope seal offered by a company called "Best Gasket". They make replacement rope seals with a material infused with graphite. I got one for my Pontiac for under 20 bucks, and it was nice and supple looking. Their kit includes a shim in order to precisely cut it to correct length (after pressing each half into their respective block and cap halves), for the proper crush at the seams when put together. It worked perfectly for me; no leaks for some thousands of miles.
I know, not a Jeep, but I was impressed with this graphite rope.
I looked them up and they do show some listing for Willys Jeep stuff.
Perhaps someone can comment?
http://www.bestgasket.com/
Posted by: Tumbleweed
« on: August 24, 2016, 12:27:38 PM »

I believe that the package that my rebuilder used was from Keiser Willys. I did notice that KW offers both seals in their kit according to their website.

Also, check out Moses Ludels's book as I believe he describes rear seal installation technique.

If you don't have his book I can copy a page or 2 
Posted by: specialty
« on: August 24, 2016, 09:03:59 AM »

Well, there you have it Al. Tumbleweed has had good service with them, I did not but just maybe his builder is getting the correct seal apparently. Might be worth calling him and see what he says. Maybe he is using a trick that he knows that works. If so I hope he shares that information. But it's fairly straight forward so I don't know what that would be. 1950 technology is rocket science is it? Maybe they found out something at Roswell on these things we don't know about!!!!
Posted by: Tumbleweed
« on: August 24, 2016, 08:47:33 AM »

I had my engine rebuilt 2 years ago and they used neoprene as the seal of choice- no leaks and no issues so far - same on my 53 wagon F head. I know it does not help much with making a decision but just me 2 [ch8373] worth. My engine rebuilder does about 10 - 12 jeep engines a year and that is what he always has used.

Most of my oil leaks come from the oil pan gasket for some reason. Currently I am using "The Right Stuff" as a test on my wagon to see if that helps. I would also call Pete DeBella Jeep Parts and ask them what they sell most of just for grins.

Posted by: specialty
« on: August 24, 2016, 05:09:46 AM »

I am living with mine right now but I will have to get into this fall. I am now going through a quart every 75 miles or so. I don't go far so It's not that big of a deal but I hate oil leaks.Adding some STP to thicken the oil some helps a little also,especially in this hot weather. The engine sounds better also I guess because of the zinc in it. When I pull the old seal if there is anything left I will post some photos of it. I am hoping to do it without pulling the transmission again. Hopefully just drop the oil pan and crank doing it that way. At this point I would love to just have a few drips compared to what I have now. Al, it's up to you but from what I have learned use the rope. Just my 2 cents worth. I just hope I have not grooved my seal surface on the crank.
Ronnie
Posted by: Linda
« on: August 23, 2016, 09:48:58 PM »

After a failure ,when you open it up, what do you find? can you tell what actuly went wrong?Are jeeps extra hard on seals?I would think. That with all modern tec someone would have come up with a good fix. maybe the market is just not there!what is the tattle tail sign that let's you know the seal is gone? Al
Posted by: 1955CJ-5
« on: August 23, 2016, 08:21:02 PM »

Quote
Randy, I also got my seal from Kaiser-Willys and it failed after a day. About 20 miles and that was it. May I ask why you sent it back? Is there something you saw that didn't look right?
Ronnie

I'm not sure if I even opened the package...by the time it got here I had read so many negative posts about the modern style rubber or neoprene seals that I just decided that it was not worth the risk.

Many of the posts were over on the 2a site, and they had some catastrophic failures that ruined newly rebuilt engines...and there was one on the earlycj5 site also..a perfectly restored 55 CJ-5 (not mine!) that had his engine ruined before even 500 miles if I remember right.

Seems the seals and the replacement oil pumps are are a bit of a crap shoot...

I don't doubt that many have had success with the new seals..but many have had bad luck also... I just didn't want to take the risk..

Randy

Posted by: specialty
« on: August 23, 2016, 07:52:10 PM »

Randy, I also got my seal from Kaiser-Willys and it failed after a day. About 20 miles and that was it. May I ask why you sent it back? Is there something you saw that didn't look right?
Ronnie
Posted by: 1955CJ-5
« on: August 23, 2016, 04:20:28 PM »

Quote
Today, I called walcks to order a rope rear main seal, was told that they always use the rubber ones ,I said all I read on differant forums is They do not work and always leak or fail.He said that they havn't had that problem,if installed properly. he said that ,if you clean the channel on both sides, put hi temp silicone in the bottom of the channels and on the ends of the two halves, it should work fine!! Key word being ( should) I'am soooo confused,Al

As mentioned this has been an ongoing issue.

We rebuilt my engine about two years ago and went through the various posts about what seal to use..

I was assured by the vendors that their model style seal would work fine.... I ordered one from Kaiser-Willys but sent it back

We even ordered a Victor modern type seal from Napa, but there was a rope seal in the box! So they weren't even selling the modern type seal.

We finally just went with a rope seal, as that was what the engine was designed to use, and I accepted the fact that it would leak a little...and it does, but just a drop or two after being parked.

The 29 Model A has no rear seal at all, just a couple of channels that direct the oil back to the pan. It also leaves a couple of drops...but, as Hawk said, they weren't that concerned about a drop here and there, way back when.....

Randy
Posted by: specialty
« on: August 23, 2016, 02:49:00 AM »

I can assure you mine was put in right. I can see where you are coming from though. it's a lot of work to do this job and when it fails it's frustrating. From what formation I have received from others the rope may still drip a little but what I have now is about a quart every 100 miles or less. I have been running STP for the zinc and it also thickens the oil some but after leaking for awhile and adding oil it keeps getting thinner and thinner and the leak gets worse. When you get to the point of the crank that you can see it's worn, grooved, or pitted badly you may want to get it repaired to eliminate that problem. Good luck on your decision. All I can say is who knows the best way to go.
Anyone else have good results with the neoprene seals on here?

Ronnie 
Posted by: Linda
« on: August 22, 2016, 11:28:53 PM »

Today, I called walcks to order a rope rear main seal, was told that they always use the rubber ones ,I said all I read on differant forums is They do not work and always leak or fail.He said that they havn't had that problem,if installed properly. he said that ,if you clean the channel on both sides, put hi temp silicone in the bottom of the channels and on the ends of the two halves, it should work fine!! Key word being ( should) I'am soooo confused,Al