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Topic Summary

Posted by: Carls_jeep
« on: September 03, 2013, 11:14:26 PM »

Problem solved, don't trust reproduction replacement parts only use NOS parts.
Posted by: 1955CJ-5
« on: September 02, 2013, 02:14:32 PM »

Excellent!!

Posted by: Ryan_M
« on: September 02, 2013, 01:39:15 PM »

Some interesting observations in the new vs. original companion flange. The original is taller than the new one. I don't have a way to precisely measure the overall height but it is obvious they are different. The "shaft" portion of each is the same so the difference must be in the "base". The new flange also does not fit snugly through the hole in the e-brake drum. Even with some hammering, it just would not seat all the way. Perhaps grinding it down would help it to fit but with the difference in lengths I'm not certain it would matter.

So, I ended up robbing the collar/dust cover off the new flange and installing it on the original one. I put everything back together (including another new output seal for good measure) and torqued down hard on the output shaft nut. Whaddya know - no binding.

I still have no idea what the end play in the output shaft is but everything was working fine until the introduction of this new companion flange. Re-installing the old flange shows that everything works as it should again. I still have not topped off the TC fluid and taken it for a real test drive but at least for now I think I have identified the culprit.


Posted by: Ryan_M
« on: September 02, 2013, 01:35:35 PM »

I don't have my dial indicator yet but since I have the day off and it's pouring rain, I decided to tinker some more. I pulled everything apart again and found that the binding was definitely caused by the 4 bolts that hold the companion flange to driveshaft - they were rubbing on the rear bearing cap. The rearing cap was damaged and two of the four bolts showed signs of contact.� I know those bolts were seated correctly which leads to further suspicion of the new companion flange.

Posted by: Carls_jeep
« on: September 02, 2013, 11:03:30 AM »

The front output shaft is mounted in a ball bearing and the end play is fixed there. I see no need to pull the front cover. The rear output shaft has a bushing that floats on the pilot end of the front output shaft and that is where you need to set the end play.

If you pull the front cover that will allow the ball bearing outer race to move in the housing and you won't be able to set the correct end play.

Set the end play at .004" to .008" and I think I used .006" as a happy medium. What you don't want is the rear output shaft jammed against the front output shaft. It won't hurt the rear tapered bearing but it will damage the front ball bearing and where the two shafts meet.

Look at the parts diagram in your Willys shop manual to see what I am describing. If you don't have the shop manual then buy one, you need it.
Posted by: 1955CJ-5
« on: September 02, 2013, 10:03:39 AM »

Have you measured the current end play? You need to know that before you start.

If there is presently no end play in the shaft, you need to remove the rear bearing cap, then you need to take the front bearing cap off and tap the shaft so that the rear bearing cup is moved out a bit. then by adding shims and replacing the rear bearing cap/cover, the rear bearing cup is re-seated at the proper depth. .006 end play is just barely perceptible by hand.

If there is currently too much end play, all you need to do is remove a shim from the rear bearing cap..this will re-seat the bearing cup when you replace the rear bearing cap.

End play may not be the issue....

Can you turn the shaft freely without the yoke in place? If you don't have lockout hubs you might have to remove the front drive shaft...and of course insure that the t/c is in neutral.

At which point, when installing the yoke, does the shaft start to bind?

Can you tell if it is the shaft that is binding or is it the yoke?

If it were me, I'd make every effort to straighten the dust cover on the old yoke, and see if I could make it work, as it worked before.

The new yoke might be drilled too deep allowing it to seat too far down on the shaft, allowing the dust cover to bind.

http://www.cj3apage.com/index/Tech_Tips/Model%2018%20Rebuild.htm

Here is a quote from that site:

"Since I do not have a run-out gauge I checked it by feel. It should just barley move. If it has no end to end movement at all, it is too tight. The endplay is adjusted by installing and removing shims under the rear-bearing cap. If you are just under the correct measurement it should work out OK when you get to the next step. If you are almost over the correct measurement you may need to remove a shim. I suggest that the measurement before sealing the case should be 0.002" - 0.006" Note: If you have over-tightened the shaft it will be necessary to remove the front bearing cap and tap the output shaft to the rear again until free. CAUTION: Tapping on the front output shaft with the front bearing cap installed can damage the front cap because of the front bearing cap lock-ring."



I really hope you solve this without having to dissassemble the t/c...I just can't imagine how a previously working t/c would need to have the endplay adjusted simply as a result of removing the rear yoke and oil seal....

I just had another idea...could the yoke be binding against the new oil seal??  Could the seal have been distorted when you drove it in, or maybe not be properly seated?
Posted by: Ryan_M
« on: September 02, 2013, 09:03:23 AM »

Quote

Then use a dial indicator with a magnetic base to measure the end play of the shaft. The end play should be .004" to .008". remove or add shims to get the correct end play, assemble everything and then torque the nut and cotter pin it. The torque is to keep the speedo gear from spinning on the output shaft and hold everything tight. The shim pack sets the end play.

Still waiting for parts and tools to arrive and have been reading as much as I can in the meantime. Everything I have found so far indicates that the front bearing cap must be removed to properly measure the output shaft end play. Is that really the case or am I misunderstanding what I am reading? I would prefer to measure the end play (with my new dial indicator) and add or remove shims without opening another can of worms by removing the front bearing cap. Is that possible?
Posted by: ZekeD
« on: August 31, 2013, 11:27:01 AM »

Great reference....thanks for a perspective of what I am in for too.

Regards
Zeke
Posted by: 1955CJ-5
« on: August 29, 2013, 02:38:29 PM »

Does the yoke bind on the output shaft housing, or can you tell?

Are you able to move the shaft fore-and aft at all with the yoke off?

Here is a thread showing the process...

http://thisoldjeep.fr.yuku.com/topic/248/D18-Transfer-Case-Assembly#.USbB0x1O8kh
Posted by: Ryan_M
« on: August 29, 2013, 11:53:46 AM »

Thanks for the info Carl. I have ordered a shim pack and will need to hunt down a dial indicator. If I owned one already I may not have had this problem....
Posted by: Carls_jeep
« on: August 29, 2013, 11:44:53 AM »

I looked in Calvins manuals and what you need to do is get a shim pack for the output shaft housing. Remove the speedo cable and pull the housing. Then add a .020" or .030" shim and put it together without the yoke. At that point there should be a lot of end play in the shaft.

Then use a dial indicator with a magnetic base to measure the end play of the shaft. The end play should be .004" to .008". remove or add shims to get the correct end play, assemble everything and then torque the nut and cotter pin it. The torque is to keep the speedo gear from spinning on the output shaft and hold everything tight. The shim pack sets the end play.

The bearing in the front output shaft housing is a ball bearing and you DON'T want any pressure against a ball bearing unless it's a thrust type which that one is not.

I'm still trying to figure out why everything locks up when you tighten the yoke nut. If it doesn't have enough shims then the bearings should be to tight even with the yoke nut loose. I didn't have the yoke on when I set the bearing end play on my T/C.

If you decide to not do the above fix then loosen the nut so there is no tension on the shaft. If you tighten the nut it will eventually wear out the front output shaft bearing and you will be pulling the T/C to repair it. With the yoke nut loose the speedo will not work because the gear will spin on the shaft.
Posted by: Carls_jeep
« on: August 28, 2013, 10:14:49 PM »

Ryan, I read your thread on the CJ2A site about this and the fact that you had to seat the seal shield against the yoke. The length of the yoke will not affect the fact that you can't torque the nut the problem is inside. I'll look at Calvins manuals tomorrow and see if I can help you. In the mean time I would just snug it up some and if there is a cotter pin hole line it up and lock it in place. That would work for now. I suspect that the nut has not been torqued to spec. since before you owned the Jeep.

I will look in the manuals tomorrow and see if I can help you but I think your going to have to pull the T/C to fix it.
Posted by: Ryan_M
« on: August 28, 2013, 09:52:01 PM »

Quote
Do you still have the old flange? I think you said that the area where the drive shaft bolts up was damaged, but will it slide on the output shaft spline and torque up without binding?


I do have the old one. The only damage is to the cup/collar that holds that felt seal. The rest is fine. If I thought I could have removed that part from the new one and put it on the old one without destroying it I probably would have.
Posted by: 1955CJ-5
« on: August 28, 2013, 09:43:36 PM »

Do you still have the old flange? I think you said that the area where the drive shaft bolts up was damaged, but will it slide on the output shaft spline and torque up without binding?
Posted by: Ryan_M
« on: August 28, 2013, 09:34:45 PM »

Quote
Since you didn't mention having the T/C apart I will assume this condition was there when you pulled the parts to replace the seal and not your fault. I don't have my manuals with me so someone else will have to post a diagram of the T/C to show you where the issue is.

I have never had the TC apart. I removed it during the initial rebuild along with the transmission. I completely rebuilt the tranny and bolted the TC, "as-is",� back onto it. Earlier this year I installed one of Herm's overdrive units, which requires mounting through the TC but no real invasive surgery.

I have no idea what had been done to it prior to me. I wish I could remember now if I had the same torque issue when I bolted everything back together for the first time last year. Either I was able to torque it down without a problem or blindly left it loose and have since racked up 3000 miles. I just cannot remember which way it went.