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Topic Summary

Posted by: Ryan_M
« on: December 07, 2012, 02:00:58 PM »

Bretto - You should be getting a commission on this guy's sales....you've sold at least two sets so far.
Posted by: bretto
« on: December 07, 2012, 01:22:24 PM »

60 years from now your 3A parts box will have a brand new assy on hand that no one will be able to supply.  Sorry to provide you the temptation :)
Posted by: calvinhunt
« on: December 07, 2012, 12:34:04 PM »

Quote
My trigger finger is vibrating trying to convince me to buy that assembly, but my mind keeps saying, Carl, do you really need it?
I was suffering with the same syndrome. �But, I ended up ordering one of the NOS Synchro assemblies. �As Bretto said, You can get the whole assembly, NOS Made In USA, for about the same price as you can buy just the NOS blocker (synchro) rings, when you can find them. �To me, that synchro assembly with the blocker rings are the most vulnerable part of the T-90 tranny operating correctly and smoothly. �And the synchro rings are most subject to wear. �So, my purchase is just an insurance policy. �Like other insurance policies, I hope I never have to use it, but if I do, it will be nice to have it.
Posted by: Carls_jeep
« on: December 02, 2012, 02:48:31 PM »

Many do not understand how important it is to double clutch shifting from first to second and second to third is. That simple task can decrease the wear and tear on the synchro rings. I have found it's best to blip the throttle with the clutch out on the first to second change and to not blip the throttle on the second to third change.

Double clutching to go from second to low is a good thing to learn if you do a lot of trail riding. I practice that as much as possible even on the street coming up to a stop sign or traffic light. After a while it is easy to do.
Posted by: bretto
« on: December 02, 2012, 12:45:18 PM »

EUREKA!
I drove it around this morning and it shifts like butter.  Much better than before.
 :) :) :) :) :)
I have got to practice my double clutching.  Having the floor still out makes foot placement a little tough in that regard.  
I also, hopefully, fixed a leaking rear output seal of transfer case.
Brett
Posted by: Carls_jeep
« on: December 01, 2012, 07:20:32 PM »

My trigger finger is vibrating trying to convince me to buy that assembly, but my mind keeps saying, Carl, do you really need them.

I am thinking the T90 was used in a whole lot of vehicles but finding a list is a real problem.  I may contact Borg Warner to see if they can provide a list.
Posted by: bretto
« on: December 01, 2012, 03:09:17 PM »

I ended up getting it set up at .012.  I had to used a .003 and a .010 shim that you sent.  Thanks again for them.
I've got it it all mounted back up to the Jeep, just got to bolt up a few other items pour some lube in and try it out.

I am sure getting good at making gaskets :-/.

It had never shifted so smooth between 2nd-3rd as it does now.  I think from the get go the other junk shift plates started to get gouged and worn right after I put them in.

I may get to where I could drive it today sometime.
Posted by: Ryan_M
« on: December 01, 2012, 02:05:56 PM »

I rebuilt my tranny a few months ago with parts of unconfirmed origin. You guys have driven me right into a panicked frenzy about cheap repro parts ever since. I just bought a set of these ebay synchros to have on the shelf.
Posted by: calvinhunt
« on: December 01, 2012, 02:11:25 AM »

Carl,
 ï¿½The eBay ad says it's for Ford cars 55 through 58, 6 or 8 cyl. �That kind of surprises me. �Like you, I'd like to know how widely the T-90 tranny was used.

Brett,
 ï¿½Thanks for sharing the info with us. �Man, am I tempted to just purchase those NOS parts to have around. �I hope that I never need to replace the ones I'm now running, and don't expect to so I hesitate. �If I ever do need them I'm going to be real sad if I don't buy them now while they are available. �I'm going to have to dust of my crystal ball and take a look into it.
Posted by: Carls_jeep
« on: November 30, 2012, 09:32:27 PM »

Today I spent some time searching for how many vehicles the T90 was used in and didn't have much luck. I never have been good at picking the right combination of words to do a good search. Does anyone know all the applications of the T90 tranny?
Posted by: bretto
« on: November 30, 2012, 07:09:04 AM »

The guy I bought the synchro unit from has listed some more.  He must have a bunch.  It would be nice to be able to buy another to have on hand.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/55-56-57-58-Ford-Transmission-Sychronizer-Gear-T86-T90-/220775742951?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3367427de7&vxp=mtr
Posted by: Carls_jeep
« on: November 29, 2012, 11:55:39 AM »

Calvin, after reading your post I began to think, so I went to the barn and got my old shaft and bearing. I measured the movement in the bearing races and found the bearing to have .012" end play. I suspect a new bearing may have at least .005" .006" because these are low class bearings and would not be good enough to use in a lathe or mill spindle. Those applications require a tighter fit.

Your reasoning sounds good to me too. Now that I have measured my old bearing I feel better about the clearance that I left in my rebuild. I have been concerned I may have set it to tight but now I think it's just fine. A plus is, as time goes by wear enters the equation and the clearance increases.

I'm understanding this more now and I think if you measure the play in the bearing your using to set the clearance and the play in the new bearing and enter that into the equation you will end up with a good fit.

However, if you had the bearing clamped to the rear of the case tight, then putting the transfer case on the back should not change anything. One thing I did was to measure the protrusion of the rear bearing out of the rear of the tranny case and then measured the recess in the transfer case. I found what thickness gasket I needed to put between the cases so the bearing would clamp up tight and still seal the two cases. The rebuild gasket kit I bought had three different thickness gaskets to use. If you use to thick a gasket you will end up will excess end play. If you use to thin a gasket you can end up with a leak or a broken ear on the tranny which mine had when I tore it down.

Aren't these Jeeps fun to work on and get right. �;D :-/ �



Posted by: calvinhunt
« on: November 29, 2012, 02:07:19 AM »

Quote
Quote
Reason I ask this because if its part of the sum of the space, there is a difference of .003 between the old and new bearing. With the older bearing with no nut or gear on the end of the shaft, I get .020-.022 of movement in the shaft. � Now logic would tell me, the newer bearing, if it was a slip fit, it would measure in at .017-.019. �Then adjust from there.
I believe I'm following your procedure, and if I am, I agree...adjust from there. �You're looking for .012 - .016. �I sent you shims of .003, .010, and thicker. �The .003 would take you down to .014 - .016 theoretically. �I would take it. �Final torquing of the TC to the tranny may give a slightly different, but most accurate reading.
George at Army Jeep Parts had me do my final check at the rear end of the splines on the output shaft (main shaft) between the end of the splines and the case (or whatever the splines end up fitting against--its been a long time) with the output shaft being loaded to the front in order to provide a gap at the rear.
Posted by: bretto
« on: November 29, 2012, 12:07:43 AM »

Quote
Ok, I took some measurements.
I am getting .020-.022 movement with the rear gear and nut off.
I put the gear and nut on and I figure this lets me measure the play in the bearing itself and I get �about .008-.009 movement.
So with that, does that mean that my overall spacing would be in the .012-.013 ball park? �Once the gear is bolts on, the only movement you get is the bearing slop.

I also measure .012 clearance between the rear of 2nd and the shoulder of the shaft so that looks good.
Yes, the .008 was the bearing slop or movement in the bearing itself.  This is the older honed out one used as a slip fit.  I also put on the new one to compare and it measured in at .005.
Anyway, I thought I should measure that movement to see where it was in comparison the movement of the shaft itself.
Now I'm wondering do you take that bearing movement out of the equation or is its part of the overall end measurement?  Reason I ask this because if its part of the sum of the space, there is a difference of .003 between the old and new bearing.
With the older bearing with no nut or gear on the end of the shaft, I get .020-.022 of movement in the shaft.   Now logic would tell me, the newer bearing, if it was a slip fit, it would measure in at .017-.019.  Then adjust from there.
Posted by: Carls_jeep
« on: November 28, 2012, 09:52:39 PM »

If you put the gear and nut on and clamp the bearing to the rear face of the case you shouldn't have any movement in the shaft to speak of. The ball bearing may have a few thousandths movement in the balls and races but that's all. Maybe that is what your measuring and getting .008-.009".

After reading the part of the service bulletin you posted I am starting to understand why you want the .012" to .016" end play in the rear output shaft. Since Willys mentions that second gear should be at least 1/8" into the shift collar that's the reason Jeep Parts tells us to measure the end play and limit it to .012" to .016". When you do that you will have second gear into the shift collar as far as it will go and still have some clearance between the input and output shafts.

I think you should leave the nut and gear off and set the end play as Jeep Parts describes.

When I rebuilt my tranny I put the original spacer between the shaft shoulder and bearing and measured the end play. I think it was about .040" or a little less. I then made a new spacer the right thickness to get the end play I wanted. That way I didn't have to use shims, which I would have had to make anyway.� �