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Topic Summary

Posted by: CJJay
« on: March 23, 2012, 02:40:49 PM »

I'm a bit embarrased as Last night I pulled the piman arm off and then turned the steering wheel and could see the sector shaft deflect towards the tub. I pulled the steering and took it apart to find that I only replaced the seal and not the bushings. I've ordered a new sector shaft kit to replace the whole thing. Now while I'm waiting for those parts I am finally putting the engine back together as the machine shop delivered it last night. They forgot to replace a broken exhaust stud and by the time they finally got around to putting the crank and cam in it the block started to rust again. I have a lot of work to do that they should have but it took about 8 monthes to get this back and I am not going to take it back.
Posted by: JeepRoger
« on: March 22, 2012, 11:28:38 PM »

CJJay - I know its frustrating, but as you've already heard from other posts, there are a lot of things to check, and the best way to go about it is systematically. As Tim suggests, start at the steering box and work your way down. Everything along the way can affect the freeplay; worm gear's bearings properly loaded, sector shaft and its adjustment, tightness of Pitman arm, connecting rod and its caps and springs (and everything installed facing the right way), bell crank and how well the bell crank's pin is secured to the cross member (two different styles; one is pinned in the other tightened with a bolt), and so on. Having a helper turn the wheel while you feel for freeplay is the best way. Attack it a piece at a time and I'm sure you'll find the problem or problems. ..R
Posted by: athawk11
« on: March 22, 2012, 07:33:55 PM »

CJ,
I didn't replace my steering/worm shaft.  I can't remember where I read it...I think it was in a thread on the 2A page about the same thing.

I recall it saying that if the new sector shaft nubs did not bottom out in the worm gear, then it was still good to use.

I know opening up the steering box is a messy job, especially if you put the lubricant back in, but it may be worth a look.  It won't cost a thing...except a bit of time and some oil stains.

I'm not a gambling man, but with all the other parts you've already replaced, I am willing to bet you won't like the way those nubs look.   Heck, you already did the hard part.  (bushings)

Tim
Posted by: CJJay
« on: March 22, 2012, 03:55:50 PM »

When you replaced the sector shaft did you have to replace the worm gear?
Posted by: CJJay
« on: March 22, 2012, 03:43:27 PM »

your probably right but before I spend a bunch of money I'm going to wait until the engine is in to see if it stiffin stuff up the front end. I'll check the welds tonight but I'm pretty sure I went throught them when I rebuilt the frame.
Posted by: athawk11
« on: March 22, 2012, 02:36:04 PM »

Hey CJ,
I hate to beat a dead horse, but the sector shaft nubs that ride in the worm portion of the steering shaft  can have very little wear and cause a loose steering wheel.  I battled on whether or not to replace mine too.  My pitman arm seemed to move immediately.

Once I looked at the nubs I knew it was toast.  New shaft and 80% of my free play was gone.

Still odd that the frame flexes.  Did you ever look at the welds on the round frame tube?  On mine, the exterior weld looked fine (sloppy....but fine)  When I looked on the inside of the frame, the welds were all broken.   My old Willys was used as a parking lot plow for the majority of it's life.  Lot's of things were broken.

Tim  
Posted by: CJJay
« on: March 21, 2012, 06:14:09 PM »

no I used the original but i did put new brass sleeves in. There doesn't seem to be any play in the box it all seem to be at the bell cranki and crossover tube. I strapped the bell crank down with ratchet straps to try to lock it in place but it still flexes. I think I have another bell crank so I am going to try to swap it and if that doesn't work I may try putting the old stuff back in to see if the bell crank piun kit I got was bad.
Posted by: athawk11
« on: March 20, 2012, 08:05:44 PM »

CJ,

Sector Shaft...did you replace the steering box sector shaft?  I've mentioned it a couple times and you haven't answered.

Tim
Posted by: CJJay
« on: March 20, 2012, 01:47:32 PM »

worked on the steering issue again by tightening all the shackle bolts and the bell crank as it had some vertical play but still have the play in the steering wheel. Tonight I am goin to take something and secure the bell crank from moving to see if the play is between the bell crank and the steering wheel.
Posted by: CJJay
« on: March 16, 2012, 02:10:50 PM »

I was not concerned about anyones grammer issues I just thought I ought to fix it. Going to look at a couple of things this week end and will report back on monday. Funny thing, I got an order in from Walcks yesterday and there was a flyer for the spring loaded adjusting nut in the other reply. at $80 I'll wait to see if I can fix it first.
Posted by: rocketeer
« on: March 15, 2012, 03:33:03 PM »

I wasn't picking on your grammer, just that cutting & pasteing your typing is easier than my re- typing it all. I would be concerned that the frame is flexing. Can you see rotational movement in the crossmember? Have you checked the welds where the round crossmember joins the frame channels? Take a close look at that and then at the spring perches and hangers, as your wife turns the steering wheel back and forth, looking for exactly what's moving and/or flexing.

Larry
Posted by: athawk11
« on: March 15, 2012, 02:34:06 PM »

CJ,
Okay,
When you say rebuild kit for the steering box, is it the kit that has the 22 new bearings, 2 cups and shims for the worm gear shaft?  Did you also get a new sector shaft kit?  This is the kit that includes 2 new bushings, a seal, and a new shaft with 2 nubs that ride in the worm gear portion of the steering wheel shaft.  (Out side end attaches to the pitman arm)    

If so, then the sector shaft may need to be tightened a bit with the exterior adjustment screw.  

If you didn't replace this portion of the gear box, take it apart and inspect the 2 nubs. This is the wear point. (The Steering shaft at the worm gear can wear also, but less)   Even a 1/16" wear on the nubs can translate into a couple inches of play at the steering wheel.

 Not sure why you will see frame flex.  My cross over tube? (radiator sits on it) had broken where it attaches to the frame.  I had to weld it.  Funny thing, once I squared up the frame and welded that back in, my "jeep lean" to the driver side disappeared.

The only thing I replaced on my steering system was that sector shaft.  And in degrees, 15 turned into 2.  

Tim  
Posted by: CJJay
« on: March 15, 2012, 01:39:52 PM »

OK I think that in trying to not be to wordy, I insufficiently detailed my rebuild. I have installed new springs and all associated shackles and hangers. I put new bearings in the top of the steering column and put a rebuild kit in the gear box. I kept the drag link but put in new kits in each end. I put in a new bell crank kit including the shaft. I kept the tie rods but replaced all the tie rod ends. With the steering wheel centered I can move it left or right about 10 to 12 degrees before the front wheels start to move. I had my wife move the steering wheel while I watched and as she starts to move it the pitman arm starts to immediately (spelled correctly this time) as does the draglink and bell crank. As the bell crank moves it flexes the frame a little before tie rods start to move and the wheels start to turn. Hope this is clearer and more grammatically correct.
Posted by: rocketeer
« on: March 15, 2012, 10:57:54 AM »

Quote
I've rebuilt and replaced everything but the shafts from the steering wheel to wheels. When you move the steering wheel the gear box moves emidiatly right up to the pitman arm. as the pitman arm starts moving the frame moves instead of the tie rods at first. �you can see the fram and front bumper move. is it possible that I don't have the srping shackles tight enought. they are all new as well.
Sorry to sound blunt but none of that makes any sense. What "shafts from the steering wheel to wheels" didn't you replace? There are only two "shafts" in a Willys steering system; the steering shaft from the steering wheel to the steering box, and the sector shaft in the box. From there on it's the draglink (from the pitman to the bellcrank), the bellcrank arm, and the tie rods (with tie rod ends).

What does "the gear box moves emidiatly right up to the pitman arm" mean? Do you mean the steering box itself physically moves? Or does the sector shaft move in and out of the steering box?

Under no circumstances should the frame move unless the spring shackles are worn out or installed incorrectly.

Do you have a manual? None of these types of repairs should be undertaken without one.

Larry
Posted by: athawk11
« on: March 15, 2012, 08:55:24 AM »

CJ,
I'm a bit confused.  Can you list the indivdual pieces and parts you have replaced?  

 It may appear that your pitman arm moves immediately when you turn the steering wheel, but if you haven't done the steering box sector shaft, once the steering is under full load, this may be your slop point.  The other major slop point will be the bell crank.  If there is any up and down movement at the crank, then the bell crank shaft may be warn out.  You almost have to get a helper to turn the wheel slightly back and forth while you are down under, inspecting the individual steering parts.  

Tim