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Topic Summary

Posted by: mrman5917
« on: February 11, 2012, 06:06:52 PM »

Thanks for the encouragement guys, I'm going to see what I can do about putting one up in my garage. I like the idea of not building a frame outside (it gets REALLY windy and dusty around here). I should be able to move my car out and get about 2 cars worth of space to work with. Now I've just gotta finish cleaning up the frame and then buy some paint and guns.

I'm thinking now that I'll go with 1 qt of Mastercoat Silver and a quart of Mastercoat Tractorkote. I'll talk to my father in law next weekend to see about borrowing a gun, otherwise I'll stop at HF and pick up the duo. For something I hadn't even considered doing myself before, now I can't wait to do it.
Posted by: Tumbleweed
« on: February 10, 2012, 03:48:01 PM »

Dang Tim,

You really did a nice job on the booth. Ditto on all the good info on the booth size.

George
Posted by: athawk11
« on: February 09, 2012, 08:17:14 PM »

Sorry,
I forgot to mention that I did buy an air regulator and mounted it to the gun.  It helped control how much air was flowing through the gun.  On the HF gun, I set the air pressure at about 35lbs.  When I pulled the trigger, it would drop to about 22-23lbs.  This was where I felt the gun performed the best for my style of painting.

One other thing, clean the gun thoroughly with lacquer thinner or any reducer you have around.  It's pretty easy to do, but take it apart and clean...clean...clean.  Dried up paint inside the gun will reduce the quality of your paint job and in many cases, make the gun useless.

Tim
Posted by: athawk11
« on: February 09, 2012, 08:03:30 PM »

Hey Kurtis.

I think George and I made similar paint booths. �Great minds think alike. �

I didn't build my paint booth until I was going to paint the tub and other sheet metal. �I shot the frame in my garage with the doors open and the floor watered down. I suspended the frame on wires hanging from the rafters.
 

 ï¿½When I did build the booth, I made �it with about 2 feet of walking space around a Willys tub. �I wish I would have made it bigger, as I had to be very careful to not hit the tub with the compressor hose. I suspended 2x4s off the rafters with some hanger angle. �I stapled �a piece of 2mil plastic over the top of the 2x4 frame. �I then stapled the side sheets to the 2x4 frame. �I bought some cheap furnace air filters and taped them to the back plastic wall and front wall. �Then I taped the filters to a couple cheap house fans I had around. �(Square box fans would be so much easier) �I took some more 2x4s and rolled the plastic around them at the floor. �I needed to weigh them down with some bags of sand. �I air pressure in the booth kept sucking the plastic sheets inward.



I thought I would need the small gun with the 1.2 tip to shoot small parts. I used it once, but then got more confident with the larger gun and didn't use it again. �I shot the primers with the 1.8 tip. Again, as George also mentioned, just dial back the paint flow so you don't shoot too much primer. �At least until your confidence builds up.

I used the 1.4 tip to shoot the topcoat. �Note, though, that all paint is different. � �Do what George suggests and shoot at some scrap cardboard until you get the flow and fan size you are happy with.

Bottom line, give it a shot. �You never know what you capable of until you try. � You may be the next great auto painter in the classic car restoration world.

Tim
Posted by: mrman5917
« on: February 09, 2012, 04:38:04 PM »

Thanks for the reply guys.

Mark - I started using the syran wrap after the first can didn't get quick a good seal on it. Made a huge difference. I'm using the little mini 4 oz. cans, so I doubt there is a pour spout that will fit on those little ones.

Tim - Would you recommend the 2-gun kit specifically for the 1.2 mm nozzle on it? Aside from the gun, anything else I would need to get to make it work properly?

George - Sounds like a quart of primer and a quart of top coat are what I'll need. That helps me figure out how cost effective it will be to build a paint booth and stock it up :)

How much room around the frame should I have? I don't know what sort of distance I would need to have from the "wall" and the frame with regards to holding the gun and having myself in there.
Posted by: Tumbleweed
« on: February 09, 2012, 04:02:24 PM »

I used the large plastic sheets just like the painters drop cloths but you do not have to get more than 2 mil thickness. The cost goes up!

I also have the HF HVLP guns and once you get the hang of spraying it will look really nice. Just like Tim said dial it back a bit to get light coats on your first attemt. I also practiced with some solvent (thinner) on a piece of corrugated board to see what the spary pattern looked like - there is an ideal setting and spray pattern - I then was confident enough to spray more paint than air and it looked great. On the fram of my first restoration Willys wagon I only used less than a quart. I also sprayed the front and rear axle and a number of small parts.

You'll do just fine and remember 80% preperation - 10% actual work - 10% clean up.

George
Posted by: athawk11
« on: February 09, 2012, 02:11:21 PM »

Kurtis.

I am actually a fan of the Harbor Freight HVLPs.  I bought the 2 gun set and another one gun set.  With this combination, you get tips  1.2(mini gun), 1.4, 1.6, and 1.8mm.  Total investment with regulator and connectors was around $65.00.  I have nothing like a Devilbiss to compare to, but in my opinion, I was pleasantly surprised with the HF guns performance.  

If you go this route I recommend that you dial the paint flow back a bit.  In the World Wide Web, it is often refered to as 'dry coat'.  (more air, less paint)  I am no pro.   Until I was more comfortable,  I found that dialing it back to a flow that mimics a rattle can, was helpful to me.    A pro can lay out a 'wet coat' (less air, more paint) and end with no runs or spatters.

I will say with regard to painting the frame, I was very particular.  I didn't want any runs or light areas. After all, my work was out there for all to see.  At least until I put the Willys back together. Now, very little frame can be seen.   With that said, focus on great prep and excellent coverage with the goal of never having to deal with a rusty frame again.

Tim

Posted by: macrisel
« on: February 08, 2012, 05:24:04 PM »

I used POR 15 on my frame and was very happy with it.  I brushed it on using cheap 2" brushes from Harbor Freight I bought by the box.  I bought two pints, but ended up using only one.  I brushed the POR 15 on in the morning, let it dry for two-three hours and then applied a topcoat of semigloss enamel paint.  I had enough left to do my drawbar, all five wheels, front and rear axle and various other parts I can't think of.  I even loaned some to a friend to paint the firewall and floor of a '65 Chevy truck..........and I still have around 1/2 pint left.  Two tricks I learned to keep it fresh and last longer:

1.  Get a cheap plastic pour lip that snaps to the can.  This keeps the paint from getting in the channel and preventing a tight seal.  As mentioned above, only pour out a small amount at a time and get a new brush when it starts drying out.
2.  Take a piece of Syran wrap and put it between the can and lid when you seal it up each time.  STORE IT IN THE FRIDGE! ( I have a full size fridge in my shop.....save the enviroment and keep it stocked with beer and paint, you'll use less electric to keep it cool  ;) )

For a HVLP paint gun, I like the Devilbiss brand.  Eastwood has a few kits for around $100-150 when they are on sale that has two guns in them, one for paint and one for primer.  One thing to watch though, the guns come with a HUGE tip (like 1.6 or 1.8mm) in them that is way too big for most anything you'll probably spray.  Even for filler primer, I swapped in a 1.2mm tip and had great success.  If you have never used a HVLP gun, it will take some getting used to.  When they say "high volume", they mean it  ;D  You don't have to have a good gun to paint and prime, but it sure makes a difference and you'll end up using less material.  One discloser:  I do my own primer work and paint on everything exept body panels.  My best friend owns a body shop and sprays all my sheet metal with his $700+ Devilbiss gun.  I asked him once if I could use it and you would think I asked him to kiss his wife.  Painters... :-?
Posted by: mrman5917
« on: February 08, 2012, 04:21:28 PM »

Were the plastic sheets just the large painter's tarps you can get on the cheap?

What about getting a HVLP gun from a place like HarborFreight? I'm going to see if my father in law that used to run a body shop has a gun and some expertise to share with me, but if he doesn't have a gun available, are these any good for something like a frame job? Any idea how much Mastercoat and black I would need to sufficiently cover a frame? I imagine it wouldn't need much...
Posted by: Tumbleweed
« on: February 08, 2012, 04:12:37 PM »

Hey Kurtis,

I have used the POR on my first restoration wagon. The only problem I had was the drying of the primer. I sprayed both the primer and the chassis black. Looks great after almost 3 years now.  It does have a nice gloss but not too shiny.

I have decided to go with the mastercoat series on my CJ this time. Again I will spary it on and use the AG111 black over the primer. I am just about ready to do this as soon as it gets a little warmer in Ft Worth.

I made a paint booth outside with PVC and plastic sheets for my frame project. I also used a (cheap) fan (from Walmart) to suck out the fumes. I placed filters on the suction side of the fan. On the opposite side of the plastic booth I cut 2 square holes the size of a large air filter (20X16X1 filters) so that I could get fresh air (filtered). Be sure and wear a good resperator if you do this as well. Some of the spray/fumes are bad. Plus this will keep overspray off your other cars!  
Posted by: mrman5917
« on: February 07, 2012, 11:46:11 PM »

I'll certainly take a look. Living in the Mojave Desert of Southern California, humidity and moisture are probably even less available here :)

I'll give it a look though. I've got a bit of cleanup left, but I think I should get the frame finished before finishing the front axle. If I take the from axle off of the bench now, I'll have no place to put it but under a frame that still needs paint :)
Posted by: athawk11
« on: February 07, 2012, 11:04:32 PM »

Kurtis,

I didn't have that problem with the Mastercoat.  In fact, my first use was to brush on the entire underside of the tub.  It is moisture cured and actually took three days to dry so I could sand it and spray on the additional coats.  I must confess though,  I live in Colorado....moisture and humidity are not readily available here.  I was begining to wonder if it would ever dry.

If you read about it, you will think it's the answer to all your prayers.  If it's all true, it will ruin POR 15.  

It has only been on my Willys for just over a year now.  So far, it's flawless.   I won't be able to get completely behind it for another 10 years or so.
Tim
Posted by: mrman5917
« on: February 07, 2012, 10:29:59 PM »

Tim, that's the first I've heard of it. I take it Mastercoat goes down, then paint with whatever for the desired finish? I've become pretty good at using POR15, but one complaint I have is that if I start with more than just a little bit of paint in a container, but the time I get to the other side of the axle, it's started to dry to the point where it doesn't go on quite as smooth.

After painting my front axle this past weekend, the driver's side is perfectly smooth and looks fantastic, but the short passenger side that was done after the differential case, looks more like alligator skin now that it's dry. It'll work fine for what I'm doing since I'll be adding a second coat and a shot of rattle can Rustoleum for the look I want, but it makes me wonder what would happen if I tried to do a large project like a frame over a period of time. I am using the smallest cans of POR15 I can get and pouring a very small amount into a second container, but if I had to do even less at a time and constantly go back to open the can, it'd take me weeks to do something the size of the frame to get a consistent coat, let alone 2.
Posted by: athawk11
« on: February 07, 2012, 10:20:32 PM »

Kurtis,

I studied for weeks and narrowed my choice to POR15 and Mastercoat Silver.

Check this out.

http://www.masterseriescoatings.com/index/primer/

Read the spec sheet and tips. �They make it sound nearly perfect for these old Jeeps.

I used the Mastercoat Silver for my frame, axles, drive train, engine, springs �and my entire tub. �You can brush or spray it.

I picked it because it seemed more user friendly than POR15 and was about the same price. �You can use any primer or top coat over it. (After the Silver, I painted the frame red oxide, then Olive Drab) �

 You can also use it during cold weather months, which was very helpful for me.

I am completely impressed with this primer. �Gasoline ate through my top coats (tank leak). �It did nothing to this stuff.

There are reviews out there on POR15 that ultimately scared me off. �And though, Mastercoat is newer to the automobile restoration industry, I could not find anything negative about it at all. �Trust me, I tried. �After sandblasting my own frame, I did not want to ever do that again.

Good luck.

Tim

Posted by: mrman5917
« on: February 07, 2012, 10:18:16 PM »

So if I go POR15, it's just straight POR15 then a topcoat for UV protection. If I go with something like Eastwood Chassis Black, prime then paint.

Has anyone used the POR15 Chassis Coat product? Looks like POR15 can be used as a primer for rust encapsulation (not that there is much left:) ) and then Chassis coat goes on top. Seems like an easy process to complete...