The CJ3A Page CJ3B.info

Post reply

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

Note: this post will not display until it's been approved by a moderator.

Name:
Email:
Subject:
Message icon:
Verification:
Type the letters shown in the picture
Listen to the letters / Request another image

Type the letters shown in the picture:
Write the word between words Jeep from this JeepWILLYSJeep?:
How many slot has a GPW grill?  7 - 9 - 11:

shortcuts: hit alt+s to submit/post or alt+p to preview


Topic Summary

Posted by: Frank
« on: October 18, 2011, 12:22:40 PM »

So For this Brinnelling reason which is common, causes looseness and death wobble it makes sense that it was the lubricant of choice for Jeep this is what they say about it

"Sodium base greases are fibrous and have a fairly high melting point suitable for antifriction bearings and other high speed centrifugal-operating conditions. It is an extremely good type of grease for use in heavy-duty applications taking shock-loading and pounding. Although sensitive to water, they have found their own niche"
From Here,,

http://www.shieldlubricants.com/indexphp/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=68:automotive-greases&catid=49:automotive-greases&Itemid=85


So right there, You can see the rational as to why it was used, it takes the Shock loading and pounding well, a "extremely good type of grease "

But Water sensitive,,

So if you go back a few posts you will see the caveat of rotating the wheels lock to lock after driving in wet and freezing conditions,

Dont want the Brinnelling and death wobble, use the correct type of Factory grease,
Posted by: Frank
« on: October 18, 2011, 12:08:17 PM »

Quote
I'm no expert but I have noticed other bearings that end up in the smae condition as Jeep king pin bearings. The steering bearings on my Triumph motorcycle looked exactly the same after 25 years of pounding. Would there be any validity to the theory that these bearings do not make complete rotations like a wheel bearing so the load is always in the same area of the race resulting in the grooving?

Certainly, Basically 3 things are needed to make this sort of Race Damage, it does not appear to effect the Rollers or inner Race,

#1 Time,
#2 Pressure
#3 Vibration, And as you point out When the bearing is not moving,

This is What causes the Binnelling, eliminate any one of those 3 the bearing race will not show that wear,
Posted by: mortten
« on: October 17, 2011, 12:04:20 PM »

I'm no expert but I have noticed other bearings that end up in the smae condition as Jeep king pin bearings. The steering bearings on my Triumph motorcycle looked exactly the same after 25 years of pounding. Would there be any validity to the theory that these bearings do not make complete rotations like a wheel bearing so the load is always in the same area of the race resulting in the grooving?
Posted by: Frank
« on: September 30, 2011, 12:42:34 PM »

Quote
Brad:

After I replaced my original tired 3A springs with new American made ones, I developed the dreaded death wobble when I hit a bump while turning right. Scared the bejeezus out of me! A check of my front end alignment indicated that the geometry changed a bit after the new springs were swapped in. An old school front end alignment solved the problem.

No technical stuff from me! Used a really long straight edge and did it the old fashioned way. �;)

Which is really is the only way to go, I would imagine that a New computerized alignment on these old rigs just wouldnt cut it,
Posted by: Chasm
« on: September 30, 2011, 12:03:34 PM »

Brad:

After I replaced my original tired 3A springs with new American made ones, I developed the dreaded death wobble when I hit a bump while turning right. Scared the bejeezus out of me! A check of my front end alignment indicated that the geometry changed a bit after the new springs were swapped in. An old school front end alignment solved the problem.

No technical stuff from me! Used a really long straight edge and did it the old fashioned way. �;)
Posted by: Frank
« on: September 30, 2011, 11:44:41 AM »

The Stability and proper function of the steering system, depends in a large measure upon correct alignment, and a definite procedure for inspection of the steering system is recommended. In so doing, nothing is overlooked and any trouble is ascertained in the shortest possible time. It is suggested that the following sequence be used:

a. Equalize tire pressures and level vehicle.
b. Inspect spindle pivot pins and wheel bearing looseness.
c. Check wheel runout.
d. Test Wheel balance and bearing adjustment.
e. Check for spring sag.
f. Inspect brakes and shock absorbers
g. Check steering assembly and the steering connecting rod.
h. Check caster
i. Check toe-in
j. Check toe-out on turns.
k. Check camber
l. Check king pin inclination
m. Check turning angle
n. Check tracking of front and rear wheels.
o. Check frame alignment.

Note If the steering gear to frame bolts are not properly torqued, they will eventually loosen during operation of the vehicle, Loose bolts will result in elongated bolt holes making the maintenance of the bolt torque difficult,



Okay thats what Old Man Willy,s has to say on the subject, pretty cool, after doing all that there should be no death wobble, and may very well be the section of the book the comic strip writer refers to,
Posted by: Frank
« on: September 29, 2011, 09:06:07 PM »




How very true this is, taken from a funny post from a Toyota forum, they think the Molybedendum *crap lithium chassis grease is "New and modern" and the best lube as per Toyota SALES,.

And the goop that is found in them is failure,

When it is filled that way from production, just like ol Man Willys did..

Every once and a while it comes up where I am asked Why dont old Jeepers know about this stuff, My answer, I think they forgot, But then again if you read Larry's comic strip the writer mentions all the info in a certain paragraph in the book, � �

Just like the grease deal,



So the info has been in the books, as well as a bit of conflicting info, but with the help of Toyota, When Old Man Willies says "He filled the wheel bearings, he meant just that,
A liquid grease,,

As far as why on the next page it says a #2 grease for the wheel hub,,, dont know,, Maybee the same reason old Dodge books say both "Short Fiber grease" and #2 Multipurpose grease in the same book,

Clearly 2 different things, when investigated,

And Here is another good section from Old Man Willys Book



So Todd the jeep gods also shined upon me and my 70 year old neighbors Dad had a Jeep bible, and in it, It explained to me what was going on in a 1988 Toyota,

To the T


And here is a lil more info,

http://www.backwoodsgoopinfo.com/goopBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12&sid=2df629be479736d9947d28282d8fd1e1
Posted by: Frank
« on: September 29, 2011, 08:41:16 PM »

Quote
Frank,
Maybe you would think about introducing yourself, you've got a total of 18 posts, Larry on the other hand sits on the right hand of the jeep gods as far as most of us are concerned. �He's helped more us out of a problem on this page and the 2A page than most of us can count. �You may be right, you may be wrong, I don't know, but I trust Larry and I don't know you? �Sorry man, those are the facts.

Todd


Okay Todd,

I would have done a introduction but I didnt see a spot, So yes, names Frank, I operate a General Repair shop in North Idaho, a general grease monkey, specialize in Automatic Trannys, been @ it for 20 years,

I became interested in the subject of lubrication for these enclosed live steering axles after the local Toyota dealership Told me the grease was "Private"

So I began a quest to find this semi fluid goop that I had seen before in "Viscous Couplers" found in AWD transfercases,  So long story short, I began posting about this "Private" grease on Toyota forums, letting folks know that the recommendation in the Toyota FSM not only was incorrect grade but incompatible from factory fill,

Well that did not turn out so good, and I have a list of Toyota bans from just about all of their forums, being the the entire aftermarket thinks this Old Man Willys goop is axle seal failure, even sell a upgraded seal to fix a problem that dont exist,

Now you may ask yourself what brings me to your lil Jeep forum ?  Well I supply Novak Adapt with this grease, so not really supposed to sell it thru here, but more so just to talk about it,

You will find that I can be a good source of information, as it pertains to these axles,,

Thanks Frank
Posted by: Gunslinger
« on: September 29, 2011, 07:45:50 PM »

Frank,
Maybe you would think about introducing yourself, you've got a total of 18 posts, Larry on the other hand sits on the right hand of the jeep gods as far as most of us are concerned.  He's helped more us out of a problem on this page and the 2A page than most of us can count.  You may be right, you may be wrong, I don't know, but I trust Larry and I don't know you?  Sorry man, those are the facts.

Todd
Posted by: Frank
« on: September 29, 2011, 04:12:23 PM »

Quote
Lets all be civil here, guys...please. ::)


Yes Bill, Sorry,

Sorry Larry, Your little cartoon got me thinking about the steering knuckle oil seal acting as a vibration dampener, ?? as they say,

I not sure about that, with a properly preloaded knuckle I just dont see it  moving up and down, Now what you can get is a Groove in the straight ahead position caused by looseness in the steering arms (I think) dirt collects near the wiper and acts as a grinding compound and chews into the steel,



But the fix here would be keep the tie rod ends and steering link in good working order, not allow the knuckles to work back and forth,



Posted by: F Bill
« on: September 28, 2011, 11:12:45 PM »

Lets all be civil here, guys...please. ::)
Posted by: Frank
« on: September 28, 2011, 09:45:19 PM »

Quote
Quote
No brinnelling can occur with a properly adjusted bearing

Frank
That is complete and utter nonsense and shows a total lack of understanding of the leveraged pressures applied to an upper kingpin bearing. Even a properly adjusted bearing will experience that pounding and it will eventually lead to brinneling, period. The last thing this forum needs is someone throwing out misinformation when they really don't know what they're talking about.

Larry

The last thing this forum needs is posting neat little propaganda posters that are inaccurate, by your own definition,
Posted by: Frank
« on: September 28, 2011, 09:30:13 PM »

Quote
False brinelleing or True brinnelling, it doesn't really matter, you have to replace the bearings and the cups either way. �And Larry is right about shocks, steering set up, drag link setting, steering gears , it all matters and it all has to be right or the thing is going to give you some kind of trouble. �Start at the top and make sure its all right. �I just fixed one of those "just plain poor designs'. �It wandered all over the road and almost shook me out of the jeep, then I replaced the shocks and it was sweet music.
Todd

Well I am a scrounge if it is "False Brinnelling" and just leaves a visible mark, but you cannot feel any indentation, I run em, your new race will be false brinneled in no time as well,,

As Larry points out, So I dont get to excited about false brinnelling and re use them,

And I am not sure if I am buying into that neat lil piece of propaganda you posted about the steering knuckle oil seal acting as a vibration dampener,,, I dont know have to ponder that one,,,

But being that this trunnion bearing is a very slow speed bearing, the False Brinneling, No big deal, Run them , re use them, never had any problems, as long as there is no indentation you can actually feel,,

Complete and udder nonsense,, I like that, and that is what is in your lil piece of propaganda Larry, and you to agree with that, looseness does not need to be present to cause brinneling,,

Posted by: Frank
« on: September 28, 2011, 09:22:57 PM »

Quote
Quote
No, brinnelling can occur with a properly adjusted bearing

Frank
That is complete and utter nonsense and shows a total lack of understanding of the leveraged pressures applied to an upper kingpin bearing. Even a properly adjusted bearing will experience that pounding and it will eventually lead to brinneling, period. The last thing this forum needs is someone throwing out misinformation when they really don't know what they're talking about.

Larry


Egads Larry That is what I am saying !!!! "Even a properly adjusted bearing will experience that pounding and it will eventually lead to brinneling, period."

I should have put in a comma, sorry

What is described in your neat lil piece of propaganda is not accurate, like you say even a properly adjusted one will brinnel, So we are on the same page and it doesnt look like you agree with the neat lil piece of propaganda you posted either,,

Easy now Larry,,  Okay I fixed the post,
Posted by: Gunslinger
« on: September 28, 2011, 06:46:39 PM »

False brinelleing or True brinnelling, it doesn't really matter, you have to replace the bearings and the cups either way.  And Larry is right about shocks, steering set up, drag link setting, steering gears , it all matters and it all has to be right or the thing is going to give you some kind of trouble.  Start at the top and make sure its all right.  I just fixed one of those "just plain poor designs'.  It wandered all over the road and almost shook me out of the jeep, then I replaced the shocks and it was sweet music.
Todd